Could FM CB supplant FRS?

[WRUE951]

1 hour ago, LeoG said:

Rather the hoards go to CB and leave the GMRS frequencies open.

Unlikely..  The 'hoards' can't set up repeaters on CB and make money at it

[WRTC928]

3 hours ago, LeoG said:

Rather the hoards go to CB and leave the GMRS frequencies open.

I heard one conversation a couple of months ago. I know it was on GMRS because one of the guys mentioned his antenna being in the window of the apartment. Except for occasional traffic on the repeater in Oklahoma City, I don't think I've ever heard anyone else using GMRS in my area. Someone uses the OKC repeater for something commercial during the day, but that's it. I do occasionally hear kids on FRS and a couple of times adults on FRS but that's about it. At least in central Oklahoma, we're not in danger of our frequencies being overwhelmed. I get a lot more activity on the numerous Ham repeaters in the area.

[WRTC928]

Sorry, I double-posted. Apparently I can't just delete my post.

[nokones]

9 hours ago, LeoG said:

Doesn't seem like a comparison that fair.  Using a 2 watt UHF with an integrated antenna inside a vehicle against a 4 watt CB with an external antenna.  Hardly apples to apples.   More like apples to fish sticks.

Most UHF HTs claim 5 watts but put out more like 4.  So if you put a GMRS on a small external antenna it would be much more of a fair comparison.

I was comparing Trail Apples because most of the Jeepers use the little Itty bitty FRS radios and the test was also to prove a point.

[GrouserPad]

My opinion on why CB isn’t used is because it’s allocated to a terribly volatile frequency range. 27 mhz is too susceptible to solar skip and this makes the CB incredibly annoying for any individual to use. When all 40 channels are receiving “9db” of a max signal because of radios tx’ing from 1000+ miles away it makes using the cb as a means of local communication absolutely impossible or at best unbearable. I have the patience and “skill” to use cb and get around a lot of the skip most days but that’s because I’m a radio hobbyist to a degree(not an advanced one that is )and I’m willing to learn the details on when the best time to talk on them is and what channels not to pick, as it seems at least half the channels are now designated skip calling frequencies. Anyways that’s my take and as mentioned the antenna length is absurd and nobody wants a 106” whip on their vehicle. 

[GrouserPad]

On 1/10/2025 at 9:45 AM, LeoG said:

Rather the hoards go to CB and leave the GMRS frequencies open.

Nobody uses gmrs around here that I can tell. I’ve had my ht’s on scan in the car for 2 weeks straight and I’ve heard 2 conversations during my travels. Only way to talk to other gmrs users here far as I can tell is to use the local repeater and I’m Leary of doing that because I don’t want to be rude and tie it up for radio checks and rag chewing. 

[WRCR724]

13 minutes ago, GrouserPad said:

Nobody uses gmrs around here that I can tell. I’ve had my ht’s on scan in the car for 2 weeks straight and I’ve heard 2 conversations during my travels. Only way to talk to other gmrs users here far as I can tell is to use the local repeater and I’m Leary of doing that because I don’t want to be rude and tie it up for radio checks and rag chewing. 

I always thought a repeater is for rag chewing. Just don't be quick to key up and allow time for other stations to break in and join the conversation. 

[Lscott]

3 minutes ago, WRCR724 said:

I always thought a repeater is for rag chewing. Just don't be quick to key up and allow time for other stations to break in and join the conversation. 

I really hate people who fast key up on the repeater without leaving at least a few seconds for somebody to break in and ask to use it, or join in the conversation.

[WRCR724]

8 minutes ago, Lscott said:

I really hate people who fast key up on the repeater without leaving at least a few seconds for somebody to break in and ask to use it, or join in the conversation.

One of my pet peeves as well. Especially when trying to check into a net.

 

[WSEZ864]

16 minutes ago, WRCR724 said:

One of my pet peeves as well. Especially when trying to check into a net.

 

Agreed. The proper way to use the repeater (ham and GMRS) is to let the repeater carrier drop between transmissions, both to keep the duty cycle lower and to allow time for someone to break in.

[WRCR724]

8 minutes ago, WSEZ864 said:

Agreed. The proper way to use the repeater (ham and GMRS) is to let the repeater carrier drop between transmissions, both to keep the duty cycle lower and to allow time for someone to break in.

I was actually taught the opposite from several Elmers. If the repeater is properly set up, you should hear a roger beep followed by about 5 seconds of hang time before the carrier drops. That five seconds should be long enough for someone else to break in or for you to key up again before the carrier drops. The logic is that the repeated back and forth of the tx and rx are more harmful to the repeater than just keeping it keyed up. 

[GrouserPad]

1 hour ago, WRCR724 said:

I always thought a repeater is for rag chewing. Just don't be quick to key up and allow time for other stations to break in and join the conversation. 

I’ve used 2 way communications my entire adult life for work. I’m new to recreational gmrs. Ran radios in all sorts of work scenarios so I guess I’m just unsure of the proper etiquette of gmrs repeater usage as it is new to me. Glad to hear you guys mention that’s what repeaters are for. I kinda assumed they were for making communications when you were in a tough situation and simplex wasn’t enough reach. Maybe I should use my local repeater more. I never hear anyone on it but when I call out a radio check I always get a reply. It’s like everyone is monitoring never transmitting. 

[SteveShannon]

2 minutes ago, GrouserPad said:

I’ve used 2 way communications my entire adult life for work. I’m new to recreational gmrs. Ran radios in all sorts of work scenarios so I guess I’m just unsure of the proper etiquette of gmrs repeater usage as it is new to me. Glad to hear you guys mention that’s what repeaters are for. I kinda assumed they were for making communications when you were in a tough situation and simplex wasn’t enough reach. Maybe I should use my local repeater more. I never hear anyone on it but when I call out a radio check I always get a reply. It’s like everyone is monitoring never transmitting. 

Because repeaters are operated strictly under an individual’s license in GMRS, unlike ham or commercial radio, what’s welcome behavior on a GMRS repeater is entirely up to the wishes of the licensed operator subject to the rules of the FCC. Thus you’re apt to see GMRS repeaters that welcome rag-chewing and you’re also apt to see GMRS repeaters that prefer no reg-chewing. 
A significant number of GMRS users will tell you that GMRS is not intended for random conversations. Another bunch will happily participate in random conversations on GMRS frequencies. 
Enjoy the ride! Welcome to the forum!

[marcspaz]

1 hour ago, WRCR724 said:

I was actually taught the opposite from several Elmers. If the repeater is properly set up, you should hear a roger beep followed by about 5 seconds of hang time before the carrier drops. That five seconds should be long enough for someone else to break in or for you to key up again before the carrier drops. The logic is that the repeated back and forth of the tx and rx are more harmful to the repeater than just keeping it keyed up. 

 

 

That is what we do with our Ham club repeaters.  You unkey and after 1 seconds, there is a beep transmitted to show that the timeout time has been reset.  The repeater stays transmitting for 5 additional seconds to give someone a chance to start talking again, without the repeater going down and up over and over again.  Of course, you are going to want a commercial grade repeater to tolerate the potential 100% duty cycle.

[LeoG]

1 hour ago, WRCR724 said:

I was actually taught the opposite from several Elmers. If the repeater is properly set up, you should hear a roger beep followed by about 5 seconds of hang time before the carrier drops. That five seconds should be long enough for someone else to break in or for you to key up again before the carrier drops. The logic is that the repeated back and forth of the tx and rx are more harmful to the repeater than just keeping it keyed up. 

I would agree with this.  I have mine set up for 4 seconds with a courtesy beep at one second after the last person has unkeyed.

[GrouserPad]

39 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Because repeaters are operated strictly under an individual’s license in GMRS, unlike ham or commercial radio, what’s welcome behavior on a GMRS repeater is entirely up to the wishes of the licensed operator subject to the rules of the FCC. Thus you’re apt to see GMRS repeaters that welcome rag-chewing and you’re also apt to see GMRS repeaters that prefer no reg-chewing. 
A significant number of GMRS users will tell you that GMRS is not intended for random conversations. Another bunch will happily participate in random conversations on GMRS frequencies. 
Enjoy the ride! Welcome to the forum!

That makes sense. The local amateur radio club owns the repeater far as I know and does it for a service to the GMRS community as it is listed as open and welcome for use by all licensed gmrs operators. Super cool of them!

[WRUE951]

2 hours ago, marcspaz said:

That makes sense. The local amateur radio club owns the repeater far as I know and does it for a service to the GMRS community as it is listed as open and welcome for use by all licensed gmrs operators. Super cool of them!

That is what we do with our Ham club repeaters.  You unkey and after 1 seconds, there is a beep transmitted to show that the timeout time has been reset.  The repeater stays transmitting for 5 additional seconds to give someone a chance to start talking again, without the repeater going down and up over and over again.  Of course, you are going to want a commercial grade repeater to tolerate the potential 100% duty cycle.

 

[WSEZ864]

Thanks for the corrections guys!

We run two nets a week on our 2 meter repeater and all of us let the carrier drop. We have a Time-Out-Timer on the repeater and if we don't let the carrier drop, the repeater will eventually time out.

[WRCR724]

21 minutes ago, WSEZ864 said:

Thanks for the corrections guys!

We run two nets a week on our 2 meter repeater and all of us let the carrier drop. We have a Time-Out-Timer on the repeater and if we don't let the carrier drop, the repeater will eventually time out.

I may not be correct, but this is the way that I understand things. 

The time out timer on a repeater is affected by the input signal. In other words, it will time out if a carrier is detected on the input side of things for x amount of time. So if a repeater emits a roger beep to let everyone know that the person that was talking has now stopped, that also tells the repeater that it no longer recognizes a carrier signal coming in on the input side. If following the beep is a 5 second squelch tail, that's the repeater transmitting without a carrier present on the input side. Does that make sense? 

If all of that is correct, a repeater set with a roger beep followed by a 5 second squelch tail shouldn't time out unless someone is long winded beyond the specified time. 

[WRCR724]

I also think that with the right equipment, a repeater can have more than one tone. One tone can activate a time-out timer while another tone can bypass the timer. I think I saw a repeater set up like that years ago somewhere. 

[Lscott]

25 minutes ago, WRCR724 said:

if all of that is correct, a repeater set with a roger beep followed by a 5 second squelch tail shouldn't time out unless someone is long winded beyond the specified time. 

You get a big round table going it's not unusual to time out the repeater if somebody doesn't let it drop out periodically. Also when running a net too.

[WRYZ926]

We are using an Arcom RC-210 controller on our 2m repeater. It is setup with a 5 second squelch tail and a curtesy beep. The time out timer is set to 3 minutes. The way we have the RC-210 setup is that the timer resets right after the curtesy beep. So if you tail gate another person before the curtesy beep then the timer will not reset. The timer will reset if you wait for the curtesy tone and then transmit before the repeater drops out.

We are going to set things up the same for our 70cm and GMRS repeaters once we get another Arcom RC-210 controller.

I don't care for that setup 100% because too many people like to tailgate which doesn't allow others to get into the repeater without doubling. I do understand why it is done since it is easier on the repeater.

I am giving a quick class on repeater etiquette at our monthly meeting this Thursday and will discuss allowing the repeater to drop completely out now and them so others can use the repeater. It can be frustrating at times when you can't get a word in due to the quick keyer's AKA Ricochet Rabbits.