kipandlee

I have mentioned it before, but it still surprised me when my wife and I did some testing a few years ago. I have a GP-9 on a 40 ft tower at our ridge farm which is 1240 ASL and I drove my vehicle way down to the nearby Sidie Hollow, which is less than 900 ASL. These are deeply notched valleys (called coulees) in the Driftless Area of Wisconsin. Distance back to the farm was around 3 miles. With a cheap dual band 2 mtr/440 ham antenna retuned for GMRS, we could barely communicate. Switching to the tiny Midland mag mount 6 inch quarter wave, the signals became quite readable and one bar on the Midland MXT400's which we had on each end, running low power. Switching to the Midland mag mount with the "3 db" gain Midland 5/8 wave antenna increased it to another bar. Switching to the "6 db" gain Midland 5/8 over 5/8 wave increased it to another bar. I think we compared power levels from the lowest power setting to medium and that helped as well. I really did not expect to see that much of a difference. Especially when you consider that the gain antennas tend to put more signal closer to the horizon. It may be that the RF was bouncing around the hills and sort of filling in from different directions. I have no way of measuring the difference in db's for each bar. It would be helpful to have a ballpark number.

The topic of the use of un-certified radios on GMRS, including Part-15, Part-90 and Part-97 gear, has been: discussed, argued, debated, nuanced, bantered, ridiculed, promoted and otherwise been beaten well past death on MyGMRS,com.
 
It certainly is worthwhile to note any certification a given radio might have. Be it as a pro, con, or simple comment.  But, please let's keep this thread to a simple presentation of brand name UHF radios that work on the GMRS frequencies and not get into that discussion again on this thread.

You could add an external power amplifier. But why? Unlike CB, and low-band ham radio, where power can significantly affect range, UHF is limited pretty much by line of sight and terrain will usually stop signal propagation well before power becomes an issue,. If you have a specific communications problem you are trying to solve, power might possibly be the answer. But, as a general rule going from 10 to 50 watts just won't buy you very much.  If range is really important, start looking into different antenna options.

link to software https://hamfiles.co.uk/index.php?page=downloads&type=entry&id=radio-programming%2Fkenwood-programming%2Fkenwood-kpg-49d-rss_2           the TK-880 s are great radios welcome to the forum

You're just not using enough heat sinking. 100% duty cycle or bust! 

Most definitely, Steve.  Unfortunately, this is the definition of a back burner project.  For example, I've had a 40ft Rohn tower for about 6 years, and its not set up yet But of recent, the project has gained quite a bit of traction, so I doubt this repeater build will take that long to finish....hopefully.  I do plan on doing lots of pictures and a detailed reasoning/breakdown on equipment and why I chose what I used.

At the very least, I'll throw a bit of eye candy (pics) of what I'm working with in a later thread.

My wild guess is the radio was modified to use an external speaker. The switch would have been used to select between the internal one and the external speaker, maybe both.

Upon further discussion,a relay just isn't necessary. A NPN transistor is more than adequate (I'm just use to larger, higher amperage electronics in my work like relays...I'm more mechanically inclined than electronic).

I had completely forgotten about the Tk-370/372! Thanks @Lscot

A friend helped me out a bit to figure some stuff out.  I'll be using Squelch detect output (busy high, 5v) (CN4 #8) on the RX unit to signal the TX.  Problem is that the PTT is 5v active and needs to ground in order to key.  My plan was to use a 5v solid state relay controlled by SQL out on the RX, which would ground PTT on TX upon receive. 

This site will create a radio coverage map for any location, of your choosing. No guesswork.
 
Radio Mobile online.
 
G.

Okay,
I’ll bite here.  I own a repeater (Rugged 575) in Naperville, IL at 300' receive / 250’ transmit.  It’s on a commercial site with other UHF and VHF radio systems as well.  Not only have I spent nearly 5 figures setting this up correctly but I monitor it as if it was my baby, cuz, you know, it *IS* my baby.  I built it with no financial help from anyone else.  Of course there was other help I received by LOTS of other commercial repeater owners (Those of you that are reading know who you are) as I’ve come a long way in the last year and some change here.  I have my repeater system set up for several different private family usage cases and I also have a tone for public which I closely monitor as well and others that are out there do use it.
 
As a repeater owner I’m super happy to turn my radio on and hear other people using it.  As a matter of fact just yesterday some other licensed GMRS users were using my repeater and I needed to use it with my wife as I was at the grocery store and I broke in and said, “hang tight guys, I need to talk to my wife for a minute.  I’ll let you know when I’m done”.  Anyways, I flipped to our tone, talked with her about the particulars, then went back to the public side and said “Carry on guys!  Glad to hear you out there using the machine”.
 
That being said, mine is set to “Ask permission” as well because as others have mentioned, I want to know who is using it to verify their license and location because it’s my system and it’s my responsibility to make sure it’s up to par on the commercial shared site.  I have sent an email back to EVERY! SINGLE! PERSON! As well welcoming them with the tones to use it!  I haven’t had the need (yet) to ever reject anyone from using my repeater but I still keep a tab on who has access to it as in my opinion, it’s my responsibility to do so.
 
Not only that, but I have my custom verbiage I send back with every request as well stating that this is a family repeater as well and to aid to traffic on the other PL tone.  Heck, I’ll paste what I send you can see where we are coming from with this:
 
“The tone for my repeater is XXXX (left blank) (N – normal, not inverted).
 
When you key up for the first time please identify yourself using your call sign and call for ROB.  I am regulating who is using my repeater as it is being used for my family as well.
 
I have received an exceeding amount of requests to use my repeater.  Originally this was set up for family only use but seeing as the range is far better than expected, I have opened it up on an as-requested basis to any licensed GMRS operator.  PLEASE NOTE:  ALL TRAFFIC MUST YIELD TO MY FAMILY.  The tone for public use is different than family so if you see your radio lighting up receiving on 462.575 but no audio is coming through on your radio it's because my family is talking so please do not key up until that traffic has cleared.
 
Thanks and I hope to hear you on the air!”
 
 
That being said, sometimes users don’t understand what a multi-table is either so I will say this too:  When you first use a new repeater you should ALWAYS call out for a radio check IMO because you don’t know how that repeater is set up and should NEVER assume anything!  I was in Iowa once and I made contact to the owner on the traveler tone (I was travelling) and he told me that it’s linked to another repeater in California!  NONE of this information was posted on mygmrs.com and upon googling I couldn’t even find it either!!!  It was good to know that I was keying multiple machines too and me and the owner had a nice long 30 minute conversation and he was glad I keyed up and shouted out!
 
To sum up further as a repeater owner:  *MOST*, but not *ALL* repeater owners don’t mind you using their machine I’ve found.  Now I’m in the Midwest mind you, so again, no assumptions would be made for other machines that I’ve never used, but around here most repeater owners are very happy to have you on their machine and it brings a great smile to their face to know that they are serving the public with a reliable communication system and growing the hobby as well!
 
Remember that GMRS isn’t HAM and HAM isn’t GMRS.  A *LOT* of people out there want GMRS for family use under one license and that’s what I’m doing but I’ve decided to open it up to the public as well as the coverage is fairly decent.  I looked at getting a business license and could have easily done it too but I like the idea of being able to chat with my family *AND* other GMRS users so here we are!
 
Thanks!

With apologies to Hemingway on the title of this post, but I just wanted to say how awesome this forum and folks who frequent it are.
 
I visit every day (when business doesn't drag me out) because people share solid info, are always pleasant and even when I'm off the mark I'm corrected in a friendly, fatherly/motherly manner that doesn't make me feel like I'm lucky I snuck out of grade school. It's a breath of fresh air in today's toxic environment.
 
And hat tip to the moderators/host/owners/people surrendering their time and cash to keep things running right. It's a rare site when you're confident you can sit down and read something with your grandkids without stumbling across inappropriate language. 

Maybe I am the only one, but I am confused about the purpose of this ongoing rant. Complaints on an online forum are not going to change anything. If you want change, file a Petition for Rulemaking with the FCC. Then get people to support your petition.
 
But, to the points you raise. First, about GMRS radios themselves: Some of your facts are wrong or off target, there is no need for a -5 MHz (not KHz) offset on a GMRS radio. There are only 8 repeater input frequencies defined and those are all 5MHz higher than the 8 defined repeater input frequencies. And, the number of internal memory locations (aka "channels) that a given user needs is very difficult to determine. Probably more than 22, but 180? Zello? Zello works just fine without a GMRS radio at all. But, Zello is an Internet (IP) based app, which means anything that connects to Zello needs an Internet connection. But, you also suggest GMRS should work when away from any cellular infrastructure. So, how is your Zello equipped GMRS radio supposed to connect to Zello when you are in the middle of nowhere? And you complaint about morse code, I really don't know what that is about? We live in a free market economic system. Manufacturers are free to offer products they feel will meet customer and investor needs. You have a choice. And, if you don't like the certified GMRS products you can choose from, there are plenty of other options, from super-cheap CCRs to super-high end Part-90 commercial equipment.
 
Technical questions aside, your major complaint seems to be about licensing fees. Here again I think you are off base. Many services, especially commercial, marine, aviation, LMR, broadcast, common carrier, cellular, etc. have licensing fees and they are often quite expensive. At $7 a year, GMRS is cheap by comparison. Yes, it is more than Amateur. But, Amateur radio is also considered a public service, with a long history and International agreements. And, what difference does it make who you pay a licensing fee to the FCC, the ARRL, a local radio club or whatever? But, even here you are not current. There is now a proposal in the FCC to lower GMRS licensing fees to $50 and add a fee for Amateur radio. The reason? It appears federal law requires fees be set to recover costs. The GMRS fee was bringing in too much money, ham radio was bringing in nothing.
 
You also object to being taxed on your GMRS radio, but have no issue with the FCC requiring a cell phone company to offer a GMRS repeater service on every tower for free. When you consider the equipment and installation costs, plus administration and maintenance costs, are you willing to pay for that every month when Verizon and AT&T raise your bill to cover their costs? There is no free lunch.
 
Ok, you obviously feel strongly about something, otherwise you wouldn't have started this topic and posted 7 follow-up comments. But, it is really hard to understand just what it is you are complaining about and what you think should be done about it. Can you succinctly state the top 5 high level problems you see with GMRS today, the reasons you think those are problems, and 5 proposed solutions.

Used this instead of 7 zip and it appears to have installed properly. Thank you for the suggestion and link WQYR510! 73

I would agree ham radio can probably be safely classified as a hobby. But, I would not make the same statement about GMRS. Yes, for some GMRS is a hobby. But, as @wayoverthere notes, probably a greater percentage of MyGMRS members than of the general GMRS population fit that description. 
 
Look at the history and licensing to get a feel for what GMRS is. It's roots were as a business service, and those early licenses are still grand-fathered in, and business use is still perfectly legal on GMRS. Licensing is by family unit, not individuals. This encourages use of GMRS as a practical communications tool, rather than as a hobby.  Another point of comparison is repeaters. GMRS repeaters are limited to 8 frequency pairs, have no coordinating body, and commonly share frequencies using PL, etc. to control access. GMRS repeaters tend to be used for short, task oriented communications and less for rag chewing. So, sharing channels works well. Ham radio, with frequency coordinators, etc. seeks to limit the number of repeaters in an area to avoid interference.
 
There are many other differences, but I think I have covered the main points.  But, I would add one more thing. Where is it written that either as a hobby, or a personal communications tool, that getting people interested in two-way radio is, or even should be, a commonly agreed upon or shared objective?  I think that is an admirable goal. But, I would also not fault someone who did not share that goal.

I have several acquaintances who own GMRS repeaters. They are personal property, not owned by a club or group, installed at their homes and were put in place for use by them and their family.
 
I have never seen/heard of anyone licensed being turned down. However, as a property owner, it seems reasonable to have someone ask for permission to use my stuff and to want to know who is using my stuff.
 
I had a 2m repeater at my house for years and never stopped anyone from legally using it. Eventually I got tired of maintaining it and took it down. Now I only use it for emergency work in the field. Sometimes literally in a field. LoL

Great write-up! I love seeing real world results. There is a tremendous value to info like this. That fact that you shared the locations helps, too. We can topology mapping to see what the terrain looks like, which will paint a very clear picture.
 
 
I'm with you on this. I have had terrible luck with Baofeng mobiles, but my BF-F8HP is a fantastic, inexpensive ham radio. I love wheeling and I don't want to trash any of my radios, but if i am going to make a mistake with my HT, I'd rather have it be my $28 radio instead of my $400+ Yaesu. Especially when having the more expensive radio brings zero benefits to the table while offroading.

Simple question, complex answer. From a radio perspective, it is completely compatible. That means you could transmit on that radio, and be heard on a GMRS radio, and vice versa. However, that radio is not specifically approved for use on GMRS. How you feel about using a non-approved radio is up to you. I will not go into that discussion here because it has been covered many times on this forum.

Hummm....
 
2x Kenwood TK-3180
3x Kenwood TK-380
Motorola HT750
Kenwood TK-3700
3x Kenwood TK-350G
Kenwood TK-353G
A whole slew of BaoFeng BF-888S and GT1 radios
Kenwood TK-880
Kenwood TK-890
Kenwood TK-8360
 
Here's my list of just HT's, they all work and are programmed:
 
Tri Band:
1 x TH-D74A VHF/UHF tri-band analog/D-Star Digital (MARS/CAP mod)
1 x UV-5X3 VHF/UHF tri-band 128 channel
1 x TH-350 VHF/UHF tri-band 128 channel

Dual Band:
1 x TH-G71A VHF/UHF 200 channel
1 x UV-5R VHF/UHF 128 channel
1 x D878UV VHF/UHF analog/DMR Digital
 
Multi Band:
1 x FT817 HF/VHF/UHF (MARS/CAP mod)

VHF:
5 x TK-270G-1 VHF 128 channel
1 x TK-2000 VHF 16 channel (International Version)
2 x TK-2170-K VHF 128 channel
1 x TK-2140-1 250 channel (European Version)
2 x TK-2140 US version 250 channel
2 x TK-2160 VHF 16 channel
1x TK-2360 VHF 16 channel

UHF:
2 x TK-370-1 UHF 32 channel
4 x TK-370G-1 UHF 128 channel
1 x BF-888S UHF 16 channel
2 x TK-3170-K UHF 128 channel
4 x TK-3160-1 UHF 16 channel
1 x T5720 (Motorola FRS Radio)

I have a few dead ones in a junk draw that I may try to fix at some point or use for spare parts.

Charger Collection:

5 x KSC-25
1 x KSC-25 (Chinese Clone mod'ed with Anderson Power Pole Input)
4 x KSC-16
1 x KSC-23
1 x KSC-35S

Various chargers for specific Chinese and non Chinese Ham radios.
 
Then there are the battery packs, antennas, mobile and base radios too.....

I normally use a Browning BR-450 which is a 5/8 over 5/8 5DB gain antenna, However I've heard that for mobile operations it may be better to use unity gain. The big thing is to stay away from "Phantom" or "Puck" antennas as they aren't too good for GMRS use.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Browning-BR-450-450MHz-470MHz-UHF-5dBd-Gain-Land-Mobile-NMO-Antenna/123809990994?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

I do not go in for beatting of dead horses. But, IMO, after the comments made about participants on this forum, I think perhaps @marcspaz's post deserves a reply. I, for one, would like to know if you somehow confused two separate forums or did you mean you reported the posts you found offensive to the moderator's and they removed them, or is there some other explanation.  I like this forum, and I'd like to see it remain a friendly place for all. So, to me, leaving unresolved issues to fester is not a good idea.

I did not see the posts in question. However, I am very surprised to hear about snarky criticism on this forum. This is probably the best behaved online group or forum I have ever participated in. Yes,  I have seen a couple of disagreements, but even then, the discussion was always fact based and never mean spirited.  Is it possible you are being a little sensitive?  That has actually happened before, and when the issue was noted and people explained their views and why they had posted them, the problems vanished.  And, on a few rare occasions, the criticism of the poster was justified, behavior changed and we all moved on.
 
Just my 2¢ worth.

Now Mr. E., I am an advanced member that has been here for almost 4 years, and I am not able to 'block people' or 'remove posts' on this forum.  Perhaps you are thinking of some other forum.
 
...or perhaps you are full of hot air, and/or being overly sensitive.  That's as snarky as it is going to get around here.

I'm glad I have been a positive and helpful voice... but are you sure you are thinking of the correct site? 
 
You are not a moderator or admin so you can't delete posts or threads and this site doesn't have a "block" feature.  The most you can do is hide someone else's posts from your view.  Even if you hide someone else's posts, everyone else can still see the posts and you can still select to see any individual posts you want, by clicking on a link where their post placeholder is.
 
Just trying to help and find out what's up.

No disagreement. Only a reminder to readers of a point @Jones made earlier. There is a place for thin cables, particularly in a mobile environment. Also, in a case where the radio is at a window and the antenna line goes out the window and a few feet up to an antenna. 
 
Noted in these forums before, but always important to keep in mind: Perfect is the enemy of good.  If someone deployed 50 feet of RG58 to their antenna and can reach all the repeaters and mobiles they want, then that is probably a good time to stop.