WRCE984

Here is a tip/trick we discovered last week getting 2 KG9000G's setup as a repeater.    It was super simple to setup if you watched the video from BuyTwoWayRadios.com or NotARubicon.   However one thing we noticed was we did not have a repeater tail.   This is disturbing because when you put a call out there you don't know if the repeater is up or not.   We found a strange menu option in the advanced settings called Repeat Hold Timer.  Here is what the manual says:
We were skeptical but we ordered the RT Systems cable and software and put in 700 milliseconds for this value in the software on the transmitter radio and now we have a tail.    Very useful. 

 
@rayep
 

I was out for one of my daily walks. My wife tried to reach me off and one for about 15 minutes. Hearing no response she gave up and went looking for me. She found me safe and sound with radio in hand still walking but asked why I did not respond. I apologized but informed her that I did not hear the calls over the radio. Despite the base radio being set correctly when I got home, no dice, no Tx. Turned out I was at fault. I had disconnected the antenna from the radio the night before doing some testing and apparently I had forgotten to reattach. At 50w the radio survived the periodic calls.

Sure is a good thing I did not do that on the day I had her read the whole US constitution over the air while I checked coverage in our area for about an hour.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

That guy is a clown, but let me explain what he is saying - since "some people" have a real problem grasping the underlaying message because it is not spelled-out literally enough for their defective brains to process.
If you go online (in this forum for example, other forums, YouTube comments, reddit, etc)  "some people" teach us that if you ever transmit without an antenna, for any length of time, ever, in any way, it will destroy, or at a minimum damage your radio - No ifs, ands or butts:  push button with no antenna = destroyed radio.
That video, and the video demonstrating the same thing on an HT (both videos use the "cheap Chinese junk"/CCR radios), show that the common lore of "push button no antenna = dead radio" is not necessarily true.
The video does not suggest that people try it, or make a habit of doing it, it specifically says to NOT do it.  The video simply demonstrates that the common internet lore spread by "experts", has at least a few exceptions.  But unfortunately "some people" interpret the video as "he says you should always use your radio with no antenna" - which, if they actually watched the video and understand the English language, they would understand that is not what was said or even inferred.
Both the "experts" and "some people" have come out of the wood-work in the comments on both videos explaining all the reasons, exceptions, etc, why neither of the test radios were damaged - all proving the point that they are trying to disprove.
Also, FYI, it seems that it is "some people" that seem to be upset/most angry about the video - claiming fraud, trick editing, other fairy-tales, which is very entertaining - its as though their worlds just fell apart.

The KG-1000G setup will have more output but a "real" repeater like the VXR7000 with only half the power, has much better (almost 2X) range - probably because the internal shielding which reduces desense, and the better/high-quality duplexer.. you COULD spend the extra money on a KG1000 setup for a better quality duplexer, but that gets costly.
The Retevis outputs far less power than either setup, but gets about the same range as the KG1000 setup..   Roughly 30-40 miles to a mobile radio, even further to a base-radio.

After having built a repeater with two KG-1000g's, which is a great learning experience, it would be much cheaper and and easier to get something like a Retevis RT97 or a used Vertex VXR 7000.

While this is not a spreadsheet, these are the basic things you need:
1. Receiver - This is the radio that receives the incoming signal on the 467.xxx (repeater input) frequency
2. Transmitter - This is the radio that takes the received signal and re-transmits it on the 462.xxx (repeater output) frequency
3. Repeater Controller - This is the device that connects the receiver to the transmitter, and may add repeater ID functionality, and other features. Some radios like the Wouxon KG-1000G have repeater functions built in, so only a patch cable is required to connect the receiver to the transmitter.
4. Receiving antenna - can be combined with the transmitting antenna when using a duplexer
5. Transmitting antenna - can be combined with the receiving antenna when using a duplexer
6. Appropriate feedline for each antenna
7. Source of power for receiver and transmitter
8. Duplexer (optional) - allows receiver and transmitter to both use the same antenna and feedline, eliminating the need for a second antenna and feedline.
 
While the items above are what is needed, there are a lot of nuances that come into play. While theoretically you might be able to build a repeater using any combination of each of the above items, many things just may not work well in this circumstance. Certain combinations work well, while other combinations just don't do so.
If you obtain a purpose-built repeater, such as a Vertex VXR-7000 or Retevis RT-97, it will combine at least items 1, 2, and 3 into a single device.
You can use a duplexer to allow the use of only one antenna and feedline for both receive and transmit. Of course, if you do, you'll also need the appropriate patch cables to connect the duplexer to the receiver and transmitter. The Retevis RT-97 includes a built-in duplexer, and on other repeater models a duplexer may be included, but often is not.
About the simplest way to get a repeater up and running is to use a purpose built device like the Retevis RT-97, along with a decent antenna and feedline, as well as an appropriate power source. Because it is a relatively low power unit, many people use it with a solar panel and 12V battery, rather than connecting it to the "grid." This is often done in a portable configuration using a "roll-up" J-pole antenna hoisted into a tree.
Overall, a repeater is, in many ways, like a car. A car has an engine, transmission, wheels, and so on, while a repeater has the parts mentioned above. It is a system of component parts, which when properly matched, performs well the function for which it was intended. If they are not properly matched, the system will not work well.
For more information, you might want to check out repeater-builder.com.
 

Here is a tip/trick we discovered last week getting 2 KG9000G's setup as a repeater.    It was super simple to setup if you watched the video from BuyTwoWayRadios.com or NotARubicon.   However one thing we noticed was we did not have a repeater tail.   This is disturbing because when you put a call out there you don't know if the repeater is up or not.   We found a strange menu option in the advanced settings called Repeat Hold Timer.  Here is what the manual says:
We were skeptical but we ordered the RT Systems cable and software and put in 700 milliseconds for this value in the software on the transmitter radio and now we have a tail.    Very useful. 

 
@rayep
 

Here is a tip/trick we discovered last week getting 2 KG9000G's setup as a repeater.    It was super simple to setup if you watched the video from BuyTwoWayRadios.com or NotARubicon.   However one thing we noticed was we did not have a repeater tail.   This is disturbing because when you put a call out there you don't know if the repeater is up or not.   We found a strange menu option in the advanced settings called Repeat Hold Timer.  Here is what the manual says:
We were skeptical but we ordered the RT Systems cable and software and put in 700 milliseconds for this value in the software on the transmitter radio and now we have a tail.    Very useful. 

 
@rayep
 

Here is a tip/trick we discovered last week getting 2 KG9000G's setup as a repeater.    It was super simple to setup if you watched the video from BuyTwoWayRadios.com or NotARubicon.   However one thing we noticed was we did not have a repeater tail.   This is disturbing because when you put a call out there you don't know if the repeater is up or not.   We found a strange menu option in the advanced settings called Repeat Hold Timer.  Here is what the manual says:
We were skeptical but we ordered the RT Systems cable and software and put in 700 milliseconds for this value in the software on the transmitter radio and now we have a tail.    Very useful. 

 
@rayep
 

Here is a tip/trick we discovered last week getting 2 KG9000G's setup as a repeater.    It was super simple to setup if you watched the video from BuyTwoWayRadios.com or NotARubicon.   However one thing we noticed was we did not have a repeater tail.   This is disturbing because when you put a call out there you don't know if the repeater is up or not.   We found a strange menu option in the advanced settings called Repeat Hold Timer.  Here is what the manual says:
We were skeptical but we ordered the RT Systems cable and software and put in 700 milliseconds for this value in the software on the transmitter radio and now we have a tail.    Very useful. 

 
@rayep
 

I would leave them alone and enjoy what you hear.  They could be using DLRs instead of DTRs because they are compatible with the DTRs.  The local Costco Wholesale store near me uses DLR radios and I can hear them on my DTR650 and DTR700 radios when I'm in range. 
The local business you are hearing is 100% legit with their radios.  It's not your problem, so don't make it your problem.  No need to spoil their fun and your ability to listen to them.  They probably don't have a clue and are simply using the radios right out of the box at the factory default settings like FRS bubble packs.  That's how the local Costco store near me seems to operate.
The DLRs will transmit very badly distorted audio if someone shouts into them or talks too close to the mic.  You can tell when DLRs are being used by the badly distorted audio.  The DTR600/700 models have better transmit audio due to automatic gain control (AGC) in the Tx audio path.  The DLRs and legacy DTR410/550/650 models don't have AGC in the transmit audio.  The DTR600/700 models have the best Tx audio, the DLRs have the worst audio, and the legacy DTR410/550/650 models are somewhere in between.  I wish Motorola would update the firmware in the DLRs to add AGC to the transmit audio.
I have custom programming in my DTR fleet and have several private groups set up in them.  I mostly use the private groups.  I purposely keep the factory default programming in them as part of my custom programming to monitor for local activity in my travels and to be able to talk to defaulted DTRs and DLRs if needed.
 

I have been GMRS licensed since December 1992.  My GMRS callsign (KAE9013) resembles an old CB callsign as it predates the FCC Universal Licensing System (ULS).  It also predates the creation of FRS in 1996 and the invasion of the bubble packs which followed.
In 1993, my first GMRS radios was a pair of Motorola GP300 handhelds.  They were expensive at the time but they were the clear quality leader.
Since then I've owned and used the following on GMRS:
Kenwood TK-370 Kenwood TK-370G Kenwood TK-3140 Kenwood TK-3170 Icom IC-F4GT Icom IC-F40GT Motorola HT-1250 Kenwood TK-5310 (still have) Kenwood NX-300 Hytera PD782G Hytera PD362 Hytera X1p (still have) Hytera PD982 (still have) My newest is a Motorola XPR7550e as I'm moving away from Hytera and going full Moto for everything in the future.  No more Kenwood or Icom either.  No cheap Chinese radios (CCRs) since you get the bottom of the barrel cr@p that you pay for.   I'm p!$$ed at Hytera and done with Hytera since the Motorola v. Hytera lawsuit settlement.  I'm also liking Motorola's stuff better anyway.  Only top tier Motorola radios going forward.
 

There's a lot of factors that affect the answer, so it isn't quite an easy yes or no. With no obstructions, a lot further is possible, but gmrs (and UHF as a whole) is very much line of sight.  Getting a good antenna up where obstructions are minimal will help, as will power to some extent (especially with the foliage part of the equation). Big hills may be problematic, though, and some areas are more restricted than others about setting up antennas.
In relatively clear air (antenna in my attic) and 50 watts, I can reach a repeater a little over 60 miles out (that sits around 3000 ft up in the foothills) and another 30 or so miles the opposite direction at 5000 ft. The ratings shown on a lot of the "bubble pack" radios represent ideal conditions, which is why they include "up to" in the small print when they talk in miles of reach.

I didnt bother reading this whole thread, but allow me to share my (very recent) experience..
I recently built a repeater using two KG1000G's, a cheap mobile duplexer, a Tram 1486 on the roof and LMR400 coax - all the experts assured that my 'toy' would not work at all. Despite what all the experts predicted, not only did it work, it worked better than I expected, with a range of about 40 miles in each direction.
I have now got my hands on a (very) used Vertex VXR-7000 repeater - after paying for programming and re-tuning the internal duplexer, cost was about $650 - it DOES work better - less de-sense so it is noticeably more sensitive/able to receive signals that the KG1000g setup could not, and i'm getting a bit better range.. But the other big difference is that it is 'full duty cycle' so it can be used 24/7 - Wouxun says that the KG-1000Gs can also be used 24/7, but i'm not sure I believe that claim..
Was I happy with the KG1000G setup? YES!  Am I more happy with the "real" repeater?  Yes.
Do the math and do what works for you..Ignore the 'experts' as many dont seem to understand the difference between the term "will not work at all" and 'will not work perfectly/be the best" ...

I just did the KG-1000G repeater thing - it works great.. its not perfect, but works pretty darn well - with coverage in 30+ miles each direction, and we just made it available on Zello (search Zello for the channel "Notarubicon GMRS 700 Repeater" -.. anyone can listen, request access to talk)
If you give a little info about what isnt working we can probably get you fixed up, or at least pointed in the right direction..

I know, by reading, that there has been many people giving input. I just thought I would chime in by saying that if it was me, I would try installing a plug and play system like that of the Retevis RT97 and a Goal Zero battery with solar panel that can be put up anywhere. I would just in case it in a waterproof case and there you have it. It wont cover hundreds of miles, but I had a piece of land that is not that large, that is the way that I would go. I know it would not apply to all users.

I have one of these operating up on a remote mountain side here in Alaska. It uses a SLA battery that is solar re-charged. I get a range of around 25 miles or so when coupled with handhelds such as Vertex VX-231s and/or Motorola PR400s. It probably can go further but I run into the inlet and can't test it further.
 
Out at 25 miles it starts to get a bit noisy in the signal but the message is readable. I attached a photo of looking in out from where it's located at.

After posting to someone else's thread and realizing I hijacked his thread about scanning, I figured I'd start a new thread with cool "tips and tricks" that people have discovered with their new KG-1000G radios.   Perhaps we can also use this thread as a "does anyone know how to..." for the KG-1000G.  It will also be an interesting read for anyone considering this radio, since it will hopefully eventually contain a lot of detailed info about how specific features are implemented.
 
I'll start with this one (cross-posted from the other thread - if someone can tell me how do delete that other post, I will be glad to do so!):
 
Quickly adding a "privacy tone" that others are using on blister pack radios
My Jeep and I were in a parade over the weekend for a couple of WWII vets that were celebrating birthdays (97 and 100!).  The organizers were on GMRS/FRS HTs and I asked what channel they were on.  "Channel 7 with privacy channel 35" he told me.  Not knowing which brand radios they were using nor remembering off the top of my head which frequency corresponds to "privacy code 35" on most radios, I was able to use the Menu [41] "SC-CTC" option (which I've programmed to Key C) to "grab" their PL frequency and then save it to my radio on channel 7 within about 30 seconds.  Super handy if you're needing to inter-operate with people on Motorola, Midland, or Cobra radios and using "privacy channels".  Note: If you want to be able to RX and Tx with the tone, you need to also change the default setting for Menu [40] "SC-QT" from DECODER to ALL.    Pretty neat feature that saved me the stress of having to manually look up possible tones and then program them via FPP while the parade was starting...

I got several solar panels new from the company linked below. I also purchased a few used ones at Ham Radio flea markets. I would recommend something in the range of 20 to 50 watts for the panel.This should be sufficient to keep a small handheld radio or a mobile radio running with the right sized battery pack and solar plane size. 
 
https://www.renogy.com/solar-panels/rigid-solar-panels/
 
I also have several of the MPPT charge controllers from this company. I have several of the GV-5 models. One for a lead acid type when there is nothing else available and several for LFP battery packs.
 
https://sunforgellc.com/gv-4/
https://sunforgellc.com/gv-5/
https://sunforgellc.com/gv-10/
 
I wouldn't recommend the use of any kind of lead acid battery unless you want the cheapest portable battery solution. I've wrecked enough gel-cell and AGM types. They have to be kept on a trickle charger when left sitting around for more than a few weeks. If you don't the batteries self discharge quickly and the plates will sulfate. Once the plates are sulfated the battery is finished.
 
I recommend going with a LFP, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4), batteries. They hold a charge for months, some even for a year or more, and don 't get ruined if they sit around only partially charged. The only caveat is the cost . I got a couple of the battery packs from the company at the link below. One was the 6 amp hour BLF-12045W and the 40 amp hour BLF-1240A. Don't forget to get the wall changers for these batteries. The above charge controllers I got were the models designed for LFP batteries, NOT lead acid or LiPO's.
 
https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/12v-series-lifepo4-batteries
 
I also have a 12 volt to 120 volt AC pure sine wave inverter for the rare case where I need 120 volts. I picked up a 300 watt unit which I have set up to work with the 40 amp hour battery.
 
https://gpelectric.com/products/300-watt-pure-sine-wave-inverter/
 
Now a few words of caution about connecting solar panels to batteries. A few people skip the charge controller and wire the solar panel direct to the battery, through a blocking diode. While that will work in an emergency with lead acid types DON'T try this with LFP battery packs!
 
Just about every LFP battery pack contains a battery protection module. The module will disconnect the internal battery cells from the external terminals in the case of a short circuit, over discharge resulting in a dangerous low voltage or when the battery pack reaches max cell voltage on charge. The last one is the killer. A so-called 12 volt panel is really 20 to 23 volts when open circuited. So when the battery reaches the max safe voltage the protection module will disconnect the internal battery pack so it  effectively open circuits the solar panel, which promptly jumps way up in voltage. Most mobile equipment can't handle anything higher than 15 to 16 volts without damage. 

If you have access to a linked repeater through stone mountain, wait for open check-ins near the end of the net. New users are given a chance to check in after roll call for active users. When you check in, give net control the following information:
 
Call sign, slowly and clearly so net control can write it down. For me, it would be "Whiskey Roger Alpha Kilo 9 6 8"
First name,
Where you are, (City/state or just state, up to you)
and whether or not you have traffic for the national net.
 
You must check into the regional net at 7PM, or check in through MyGMRS under Nets. Net Control does request that if you say you'll participate in the national round table that you be there. Lotta people say they have traffic then dont show up.
 
After all that, your call will be put on the roll call, adding the state of VA to be called out. Your call will remain on the list as long as you are active. If you miss 5 meetings in a row (Correct me if I have that number wrong) your call will be removed.

No programming is needed to use the DTRs and DLRs with each other right out of the box at the factory default settings.   Customization of features and settings requires the Motorola Business Radio CPS and is a free download from Motorola.  Some features and settings on each model can be changed without requiring the CPS.  The CPS cable is around $35 on Amazon.  The same CPS and cable programs all of Motorola's business radios (RDV/RDU series, RM series, RMM series, etc.).  The one exception is the legacy DTR410/550/650 models use a different CPS cable.  You can download and install the CPS and play around with it and explore the DTR/DLR features and settings.  The latest version of the CPS is R08.02 and programs all of the older models.  You don't need a particular version of the CPS to program an older radio.  Just use the latest CPS version.
 
The Motorola Business Radio CPS can be downloaded from here:
https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/commercial-business-two-way-radio-systems/on-site-business-radios/dtr-series/dtr700.html#tabresource
 
There is no "pairing" of DTRs/DLRs like there is with Bluetooth devices.  They pair up with each other on the fly with each PTT press.  They do have to first be on the same frequency hopset and talkgroup ID in order to work with each other.  A transmitting DTR/DLR listens for an acknowledgement from a receiving DTR/DLR radio during the NEXTEL-like PTT "chirp" talk permit tone to sync up to allow transmission to continue.  When in range, transmission simply continues.  When out of range, transmission stops after the PTT chirp and emits a warning beep indicating the call failed.  The beep is a soft "do-do-doot" sound on the DLRs and DTR600/700.  A DTR600/700 will also display a Call Failed message.  The legacy DTR410/550/650 models will scream at you like an old NEXTEL phone and display a User not Available message.  The end result is you will always know that you are in range and your transmission was heard and acknowledged by another radio.  This makes it easy for range testing because you don't need two people for "Can you hear me now?" testing.  You can leave one radio on the dining room table at home and then take the other radio with you and go for a drive and press PTT to see where you get connect hits.
 
I have found people tend to use these radios right out of the box at the factory default settings, like FRS bubble packs.  I have customized the programming in my DTRs but I purposely kept the factory default public talkgroups in my programming to listen to and talk to defaulted radios.  I have private groups in my programming to keep my DTRs private when I want that.  I have monitored activity on the default public groups in my travels when passing through major retail areas.  The local Costco Wholesale near me uses DLR radios at the factory defaults and I can hear them when I'm in range.
 
They are amazing radios.

You are correct. Turn off your privacy codes (DCS or CTCSS), turn your squelch down low, and monitor ch 15-22. If there is a repeater near you, you should be able to hear it on one of these channels. Your radio may have a scan function which might make it easier to just leave the radio scanning until you find an active channel. A repeater will likely have some sort of automated ID. Enjoy!

You are correct. Turn off your privacy codes (DCS or CTCSS), turn your squelch down low, and monitor ch 15-22. If there is a repeater near you, you should be able to hear it on one of these channels. Your radio may have a scan function which might make it easier to just leave the radio scanning until you find an active channel. A repeater will likely have some sort of automated ID. Enjoy!