generalpain

It's still there....you'll have to hit the "gear" button at the top left of the map, and toggle the option for "show stale repeaters" or "show offline".

I suggest that your issue is that your two radio are too close together and you are experience desense. The frequency one radio is sending out to the repeater is adversely affecting the ability of the other radio to successful capture the repeaters output frequency because of the level difference between the two. Separate your two radios by about 100 feet and more and then try again. This is a common issue. If affects all RF receivers to various degrees. The better the radios receiver design, the lesser this issue becomes.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

Do you know what the rationale there was?  There shouldn't be any benefit to BNC connectors in your situation, and adding more adapters in the feed path will actually reduce effectiveness slightly (all other things remaining the same).
A better antenna than the one you are using, and height, are the most sure ways to improve almost any situation.

None of my radios have numbers assigned to tones so privacy code 07 means absolutely nothing to me. There is no assurance that a manufacturer would assign the same tone to a code number so a value of 7 could be almost any tone that would be compatible with only their radios. GMRS/FRS still isn't popular enough that a significant number of people would even carry the radios or know how to set a code in the first place. CTCSS codes are something I set using a computer for specific repeaters and wouldn't even begin to fumble my way through a menu on a screen or voice prompt to try to set. No, using or requiring a code on a channel for emergency purposes isn't a good practice in my estimation. Perhaps something such as calling on the 7's would be a better solution, as there would be 6 specific times for beginning a call that would (and should) change to a different channel.

I would not rely on GMRS for an emergency. Even in all my years of SAR FRS/GMRS has never helped us. For my work I carry a Garmin Inreach + Its $15 a month for piece of mind.
 

I see posts where people buy a radio(s) to use in an "emergency". How many people have REALLY used their radio in an emergency, not some simulated drill? What was the experience like? Were the preparations made before hand sufficient? What would you have done differently after the experience and lessons learned? 
I think the above are the only real relevant questions.  Simply buying a radio and keeping it in the draw with some battery packs until the SHTF doesn't really cut it I suspect. I'll take real experience over some hypothetical situation or simulated condition.

I know we all like things free, but I have no problem with even the current $70/10-year license fee, so long as that fee is being used for the constructive benefit of the radio community. Paying for the purpose of ‘covering adminstrative costs of issuing a license’ makes no sense. Paying for enforcement efforts, authoring of technical criteria, organizing the bands and the administration of efforts that end up benefiting the masses are appropriate and should be expected.

I agree that the GMRS license is a good personal value since it does cover you and your immediate family members. However, I do not however see how GMRS is ‘gonna be better than the ham’ unless the sole comparison is the average number of body’s covered per license. Ham radio exists for public service and to provide the spectrum for the technically inclined to experiment and innovate. GMRS is for short-distance local communications with family and friends. A ham license affords the user much greater chunks of spectrum and virtually no bounds in terms of what technology can be used, including technology the user develops themselves. That is not going to happen and should not happen on GMRS. As a GMRS user you expect to buy equipment, turn it on and it just works.

I agree that the pandemic has perhaps caused more to get their GMRS license. But I suspect that is the case for amateur license as well. I obtained my first GMRS license 15-20 years ago. I finally obtained by ham license during the pandemic. While I have not looked up the numbers, I suspect both services have seen an increase in licenses during this period.

As far as increasing the power from 50 to 100 watts (3dB). I truly do not see the practical upside to such a minuscule increase, and downsides if it was increased substantially more. Given that GMRS is already line-of-sight communications and takes very low power to go long unobstructed distances, and given that 3dB is lost very quickly through a sequence of obstacles, the benefit of the added power is really negligible. However if it was increased substantially, up from 50 to say 1000 or more, the effect on existing services operating on adjacent frequencies could suffer.

The FCC has a fine balancing act to perform when it carves up the spectrum and establishes the technical criteria for each service. Even a bigger challenge when some new technology comes along that has different RF requirements.

Just one man’s opinion.

Regards,


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

19 is a terrible idea, as 462/7.65 is strictly prohibited above line A.

That metal chimney will have unintended consequences for your SWR and for where your signal will go.  I can't tell based on a photo, but raising the antennas above that chimney will eliminate any problems (in addition to adding a ground plane as kb2ztx advised).

Regarding the distance between two antennas...  it doesn't matter that you're not transmitting on both at the same time-- if they are too close, you could damage the one that is not transmitting.  Raising one higher than the other will help with this problem. 

Can you add a mast to the one that is attached to the chimney to get it above the chimney?  That and adding ground planes will help immensely.

That metal chimney will have unintended consequences for your SWR and for where your signal will go.  I can't tell based on a photo, but raising the antennas above that chimney will eliminate any problems (in addition to adding a ground plane as kb2ztx advised).

Regarding the distance between two antennas...  it doesn't matter that you're not transmitting on both at the same time-- if they are too close, you could damage the one that is not transmitting.  Raising one higher than the other will help with this problem. 

Can you add a mast to the one that is attached to the chimney to get it above the chimney?  That and adding ground planes will help immensely.

Cliff notes: unless youre thinking communicating with another member of your group, I would put gmrs lower on the list of what I'd depend on. PLB with 2 way messaging may be a better option (here is a list of some I found on Google, no endorsement of the site or a specific product https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/camping-and-hiking/best-personal-locator-beacon)
While having options is good, I would rank gmrs down the list for a few reasons. First, and foremost, getting help is dependent on there being someone else around to hear the need for help. If you're with a group and that's who you plan to communicate with, them it's not a bad choice. However, many users on gmrs are primarily there to communicate only with their group,  and run "privacy tones" to not hear users outside their group. The "someone out there to hear" also applies to repeaters; many don't see much activity, and there are many out there not listed because they're intended for family use only. While there is definitely some good areas of enthusiasts out there (arizona/NM and the great lakes areas and their networks come to mind), it isn't like that everywhere.
On the functional side, UHF is pretty line of sight, and attenuated by brush and foliage, limiting your range; this is compounded with a handheld, because even in the clear you run into horizon issues due to the curve of the earth, also limiting range, though being on a high spot helps. Finding a repeater would be the highest odds of getting any good range to be heard.
On some specific areas, I do know of some good coverage in Arizona and into New Mexico, I don't know of any coverage in sequoia/kings canyon, nor any with good coverage of Yosemite, though there might be some spots that can reach one. I don't know of any IN the parks. As I understand it, even the ham side is spotty into Yosemite, though kings canyon is said to have some coverage.
Hope this helps. Not trying to be negative about it, just realistic.

First thought is are you using ch 15 or the repeater channel 15? (I believe it's labeled Rept15 on my 805g). The repeater preset will have the transmit offset needed for the repeater, where regular ch 15 transmits and receives on the same frequency (simplex).
Second, how are you determining connection to the repeater? Listening for a tone/static/squelch tail back from the repeater or for audio from your other radio? If the latter, it may be desensing when you transmit and not getting the repeated audio. (I see the desense issue was mentioned in the other thread)
Third, it is possible the listing is out of date, and the tone/frequency info is wrong or the repeater no longer exists. The listings are mostly dependent on repeater owners maintaining their listing (or removing, if warranted), and unfortunately a few don't bother.

Alright.  Since I am the guy with the tens of thousands of dollars setup and the commercial install I believe I need to interject here.  Never did I say that a small repeater system is useless.  And there are COMMERCIAL repeaters available that ARE indeed two mobiles in a box with a controller between them.  And those work find if that is all you need. 
My point was if you are going to put up a big commercial grade install that you need to NOT pull the crap of wanting fee's paid for access, as this level of install has a huge footprint that will interfere with other repeaters on the same frequency in that footprint.  And the frequency resource is limited for repeaters.  I am all for guys that want to put up a repeater on their roof or short TV tower and be able to talk 8 or 10 miles.  This sort of thing SHOULD be encouraged.  But you still need to be aware of others on the frequency and try to find a quiet pair to set your repeater up on.   
The other thing that needs to be said here is IF you are going to stick an antenna WAY up in the air and cover a 60 to 80 mile radius, you DO need to have good commercial equipment and not two portables with a back to back cable between them and a cheap duplexer.  And here's the reason.  If you are the only one that will be using it, and the usage is light, it don't matter.  But with a big coverage footprint there is a good chance that it will see a lot of use and portable radios are NOT designed to be run at that duty cycle.  The commercial repeaters I use for GMRS are 100% CCS (continuous commercial service) rated.  This means they are designed to be transmitting up to 100% of the time, 27/7/365 and live.  If you were to try that with the two back to back mobiles the transmitter would not survive the abuse, even with a fan and additional cooling.   Now, my repeaters are only logging 30 to 45 minutes of use a day currently... but that number keeps increasing.  And that's fine.  I built it to run all the time, and offer it for free to all licensed users in the coverage area to use at their leisure.  But I would hate to see someone put in inferior gear at some remote site and it die when it was needed.  That situation is actually worse in my mind than it not being there at all.  Because if it's needed and expected to be operational.  And that operational repeater is part of someones emergency plan, then it needs to work as such. 
 
 

That's petty much exactly what the rules say and requires. You would be surprised by how many people do in fact have multiple radios for the various services. It's common.
We have one or more individuals on this form who feel that's rather inconvenient and look for creative ways to circumvent FCC regulations. Are they likely to get away with it? Yes, but if they do get busted I have some very serious doubts the administrative court would agree with their arguments. Paying attorney fees, court costs and the likely $10,000 FCC fine is an expensive way to test their arguments where it really matters.

Somewhat new GMRS user (at least in the world of repeaters) and new ham (but with a lengthy interest in radio in general) here, and I'm maybe wading into dangerous territory with this older thread, but I do have some thoughts, and that it's worth respecting both viewpoints here on repeater access and use of the few channels we have. 
As with any hobby, we want to find a use for our toys, and those uses can be varied. Sometimes it's easy to forget there are other sides of the hobby, or antagonize them.  Not everyone is using the radio just for the sake of using a radio
Over on the ham side, you've got all sorts of things. CW and DXing, ARES/RACES, social nets, AMSAT, packet radio, you name it. I don't know how much overlap there is on each of those niches, but there's plenty of spectrum to go around. Or at least enough. Yet there's still plenty of arguing by the "Sad Hams" on who's doing it right, which seems to be whatever they aren't.
OTOH, we're limited to 22 little channels here, and only 50W and repeaters on 8 of them (six, if you're like me and 'North of Line A'). We have to play nice. Thanks to the past posters who mentioned the roots of GMRS as CB Class-A and some business use, which explains why we get such a small slice of spectrum. Thankfully, we're not dictated on what we can use it for. But for better or worse, we share it with FRS, and bubble-packs (licensed or not), Garmin RHINO, legacy-license businesses, and the like. Clearly it's used as a 'utility' service, whatever that may be. Maybe to you it's shooting the breeze, and to others its something else, and that's the beauty of it, since by nature it's fairly limited in range.
I've seen complaints around the web of GMRS users coming across families yapping, traffic flaggers and the like, and, well, assuming they're licensed or using FRS, they have every right to be there. Even if they're not, they're there, and thankfully at least around here it doesn't sound anything like the chaos of CB. That's why we're limited to 50W and not 1500W. (also thankfully, in my area in the middle of Seattle, all I ever hear regularly are some carpenters on a nearby construction site, and a parent checking in on their child walking home from school.) Yes, its frustrating to hear kids screaming on Channel 1 day and night, but the disdain should be towards discourteous users, rather than all utility users.
Someone earlier mentioned communication while kayaking, and similarly I'm sure many here are off-roaders switching from other communication modes, and as another person replied, for them the radio is in support of another hobby, rather than the hobby itself. For me, I'm interested in radio as a hobby as well, but in a way I can use it for what I need. That's the type of thing I use it for—group and family outings and beyond-cell, or alternative-to-cell communications. To that end I like that GMRS is relatively quiet.Something I don't appreciate, when I have been using it for intra-party communications, is someone coming on a simplex channel and asking to strike up a conversation. No, I don't want to chat, I'm halfway down a mountain, trying to get ahold of our ride at the trailhead. Using tones appears to be a no-no in ham bands, but I definitely use them on GMRS simplex. 
Anyway. With all that said, I certainly understand @JCase's views on this, in wanting to limit all those other uses when you need wide coverage. In the Seattle area, we've got quite a few repeaters, including many unlisted ones in-city, that are private, for neighborhood/emergency use, or request permission and discourage rag-chewing. That's their choice—unlike in amateur, there's no (voluntary) governing body on choosing a channel, and they don't have rule over a specific frequency, but it's their equipment and they have every right to be picky over who can access it. Many of them are in areas with no cellular coverage, and I too would be a bit miffed if I couldn't get through to family member because of chitchat, or they turned their radio off because of such. And I appreciate those that have extended the offer to me with the expectation I'm not going to yak all day to strangers. Most of them are not 'for absolute emergency use only'—they want them to be used, but they also want them to be usable and not clogged up.
Again, 50W will only go so far in most places. It's their right, legally and in practice, to have a privately accessed system, and it's likely not going to step on others' systems. This is what I mean by GMRS being utility oriented. 
But in counterpoint, I also appreciate those like @WRKC935 that have invested the time, money and effort into building something for complete public access. Looking at the WWARA database, I'm astounded at how many repeaters are in the area. And scanning through, equally astounded at how many are dead quiet, or on further research strongly discourage use other than some specific purpose; again, that's their right as equipment owners, but it's nice that some owners have stepped up to provide a community forum. On those bands, where repeater slots are coordinated, both 2m and 70cm are pretty full with very wide coverage systems—there's no room to say "hey, I'll just start my own repeater!"
Again here, on GMRS, we have one repeater up on Tiger Mountain that covers much of the region, and it gets used for ragchewing, even if it's the same 5 or so guys, and that's great that it doesn't sit there silent. Agreed with @mbrun that if you're gong to cover that much ground with one frequency, it is a public service in a way. People have the technical know-how and resources to set up something like that make it more useful for everyone, not just radio junkies. Moreso than the amateur band, I do believe that, with cellular taking away a lot of the user base and the growth of different wireless data modes, GMRS is at use-it-or-lose-it risk.
I do hope this doesn't come off as the radio police (or alternately, too wishy-washy). I try not to be pedantic, since there's too much arguing over Part 95 or when to ID and things like that. I just think that we occupy a special niche—restricted in equipment, power, and frequencies, but not in coordinating through a regulating body; we're neither CB nor amateur—but it's small, and we need to make everyone happy. You can have a small private repeater for your neighborhood or a public one for your whole county, but be understanding of other uses, even the mom calling kids in for dinner on simplex.
And to @Doctnj the radio world is fun, and there's lots to play with and many ways to put it into good use. I've long been an audio and phone tinkerer, and I thank MacJack on here for suggesting I get my ham ticket, since I learned in studying for it that there's a lot more to that than the quite literally old boys' club, and room to experiment with things you can bring back to GMRS. No reason to be one or the other!

One fool can ask more questions than one hundred wise can answer, but I'll answer this: Specifically prohibited by 95.1733 (9). And I'm too lazy to look up an identical line in Part 97, but I'm sure it exists.
Edit
Ah, what the hell, here it is: 97.111 (b) and 97.113 (b)

If a new ham came to me with the question about "which digital voice mode" to use, I would suggest looking up the repeaters in their area to see if there is a clear front-runner.
Around me, it's like
50% FM 40% DMR 10% all other digital voice modes To me, it was simple-- I went with DMR because I wanted access to as many local repeaters as possible.
Of course, if you will mostly use a hotspot, then we're back to the original question.

If a new ham came to me with the question about "which digital voice mode" to use, I would suggest looking up the repeaters in their area to see if there is a clear front-runner.
Around me, it's like
50% FM 40% DMR 10% all other digital voice modes To me, it was simple-- I went with DMR because I wanted access to as many local repeaters as possible.
Of course, if you will mostly use a hotspot, then we're back to the original question.

If you are doing it for “the learning experience” then go for it. That is how we all learn best We try things and learn what does and does not work. But consider it like a high-end college education, learning is expensive. For many of us the more it costs us and/or the more we get burned, the more we take away from it.

What one learns however is actually quite predictable when it comes to radio since fortunately many have gone before us and have shared their knowledge with the world.

Some key things we can predict will be learned.
- A high antenna elevation relative to obstacles and receiving antenna are material to extending one’s useable range.
- Adding more power does not translate into proportionally greater operating range.
- We cannot cost-effectively and legally buy enough power to overcome insufficient antenna elevation.
- Watt-for-watt, A home brew repeater will have less usable range in any given direction than operating the same radios simplex.
- The average person does posses the knowledge nor the test equipment to optimize the performance of a duplexer and will need to rely on other$ for both.
- A commercial-grade purpose built repeater will out perform a home-brew repeater built from consumer-grade components.

If, down deep, your real hope is own a repeater that achieves some specific pre-imaged coverage range, here is my recommendation to you. Focus on simplex first. Figure out what it takes to achieve more than your must-have imagined radio-to-radio range. Figure out what type of antenna, how high it must be and with what power and type of radios. Now, once you have figured all that out and are satisfied, then let the repeater enter into the equation. For at this point you can be reasonably assured that you can achieve repeater success with the right equipment.

From personal perspective, I do not own and operate a repeater. While I believe I could afford one, I cannot justify the cost of achieving the antenna elevation I need to achieve the coverage I would want to make it worth my while. While some people are blessed to have great access to antenna sites and others have high natural geography to make it viable for them, most of us do not. You may be one of the lucky ones.

Whatever you do, enjoy working with radios. They are a great tool to have.

Regards


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

To be clear I said ‘I look at it this way’, intending to clarify how I personally interpret and put the rules into practice. But let me explain how I get there.

First, I believe most would agree the FCC is pretty clear that GMRS licenses are granted to individuals. I also believe it is equally clear that immediate family members may operate under that individual’s license (the operative word here being “may”).

Article § 95.1705 of the regulations uses the term ‘may’ many times. Upon reading, one will see it that ‘may’ in is referring to discretionary permission of the licensee, such as “Any individual who holds an individual license may allow his or her immediate family members to operate his or her GMRS station or stations. “. Upon further reading one will see the FCC identifies who the licensee may grant (by extension) to use their station(s). In other words, 95.1705 clarifies who the licensee is permitted to grant permission too. In practical terms and by example this means that, in part, I can grant permission to my son or daughter to use my license if I choose, but I am not obligated to. If one child is responsible and the other is not, I might not choose to grant it.

The next part is the use of the ‘station’. A station is the apparatus necessary for transmitting (aka ‘operating’). In its simplest definition this is a transmitter. Each transmitter is a station. In its most popular form, a handheld portable transceiver is a form of ‘station’. If I purchase a twin pack of GMRS radios I have purchased two stations. Again, in 95.1705 it states “Individual licensee responsibility. The holder of an individual license to operate GMRS stations is responsible at all times for the proper operation of the stations in compliance with all applicable rules in this part. “ and “The licensee must maintain access to and control over all stations authorized under its license. “

So, if a licensee purchases, and thus owns, four (4) handheld transceivers they may grant permission to select (or all) family members to operate those four stations, so long as the licensee has access to and can exercise control over those stations. This is easy to do when the family members live with them and or are attending an event in which the licensee is also present. Not so easy to do in the licensee is in New York and the radio is in California.

Further, I have zero authority to give permission to anyone to use your station equipment. Only you have the authority to do that. In a similar way, I have no authority to give my children permission to use station equipment that is owned by their aunt or uncle, nor can I grant permission to their aunt and uncle to use the transceivers they have purchased on their own. They are not mine to grant permission to.

Bottom line, I can grant permission to use only stations I own and have control over, nothing more.

Here is link to complete 95.1705 text for any that care to read it.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.1705

Hope this provides some clarification.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

The revamp of the MyGMRS forums looks amazing on desktop and functions very well on mobile. However, these "Open this topic on..." nag screens that pop up every time on mobile browsers are very annoying:
     
There doesn't appear to be a way to permanently disable this as every time I navigate to the forums page I see it. "Chrome" is always shown as the option for all Chromium-based browsers, and this yields a confusing UX. Who even uses Tapatalk anymore in this day and age of mobile-first web development? So many forums I subscribe to have dropped support for this app long ago, RadioReference included. Anyway, my 2¢...

Hmm..  just to be a contrarian, I will posit that the whole appeal of FRS/GMRS is its simplicity and "open the box and get started" ease of use.   Thus, having designated channel numbers helps the vast majority of FRS/GMRS users.   I'll bet that if you polled 1,000 frequent users of FRS/GMRS radios what frequency their favorite channel was on, 950 of them wouldn't have a clue.  The other 50 are participating in this forum.  ? 

On the radio side you have basic several choices to make.
1. Do you want a hand held radio?
2. Do you want a mobile only radio, that could also be used as a base?
3. Numbers 1 and 2 above.
4. Do you want a purpose designed GMRS radio?
5. Do you want a used commercial radio, lets say a Motorola, Kenwood or Vertex for example.
6. Do you only want Part 95 certified radios, highly recommended?
The prices will vary from under $100 to well over several $100's depending on your choice. Usually the performance is better with the higher price points, but not always. The general opinion is the used commercial radios perform better than the cheaper offerings from the Chinese manufactures.
Personally myself I have a rather large collection of commercial Kenwood hand held radios. Another member is a very strong advocate for Motorola gear and won't touch anything else. One thing is for sure, you'll get a lot of opinions one way or the other.
One other point, if you are considering getting a Ham license at some point that may change your choice of which radio(s) to get. Some model of radios will allow you to enter NON GMRS frequencies in them, like for the Ham 70cm band. For those radios you can use on both services without requiring two separate radios.
One radio I've been using lately, which is Part 90 and 95 certified is the Kenwood TK-3170. The software will allow out of the officially supported band range frequencies so I have both GMRS, and a bunch of Ham 70cm repeaters programmed in to it. The later when entering those frequencies the programming software will generate a warning but accepts the entry when you acknowledge the message. 
The Kenwood radios I have in my collection that have the required Part 95 certification for GMRS are:
TK-370G-1
https://mra-raycom.com/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Specifications/portables/TK-270G-370G-Product-Brochure.pdf
TK-3140 type 1
http://rsws.zapto.org/RadioSoftware/Kenwood/tk-2140-3140.pdf
TK-3170 type 1
https://www.wirelessvoicedata.com/downloads/kenwood/kenwood-tk-2170-3170-brochure.pdf
TK-3173 type 1
http://www.secomwireless.com/KWLIT/LIT_TK-3173.pdf
TK-3180 type 1
https://www.ameradio.com/doc/Kenwood_TK-2180_TK-3180.pdf
TK-3212 type 1
http://www.deisradio.com/files/TK-2212-3212 Brochure.pdf
The commercial radios come in different frequency ranges. Make sure the "type" you are buying covers the frequency range for GMRS, 462 MHz to 467 MHz.
Also don't forget for any radio you'll need to get the programming software and cable for it. That's very important for the commercial radios since they can't be programmed from the font panel.
Antennas, coax, mounting etc. that is a whole other topic.

There are actually 22 GMRS frequencies. How did you even pass the FCC GMRS exam?