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Can GMRS repeaters be linked to the web like Echo Link for hams?


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#1 WRCP828

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 11:03 AM

Does anyone know?


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#2 Corey

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 11:30 AM

We are already doing it http://link.mygmrs.com

 

Corey


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Just My $.02

 

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#3 Ian

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:51 PM

FCC regs specifically prohibit linking GMRS with POTS.

 

Recent FCC opinions, since superseded by the PRS reforms, have said "Yes, but only if you don't get your internet from DSL".

 

The PRS reforms have eliminated the exemptions - GMRS may not be interconnected with POTS.

 

Here's where it gets hilarious.

 

POTS is defined nowhere in the Federal Register (any more).

 

Last time it had a published definition, though, the current global IP telephony system bore absolutely zero resemblance to the POTS network in question.

 

Per basic Constitutional principles, what isn't prohibited is permitted, so…



#4 Ian

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 10:13 PM

We are already doing it http://link.mygmrs.com

 

Corey

How do you get in on this network?  And are these point-to-point links, or some kind of national or regional network?



#5 berkinet

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 03:44 AM

FCC regs specifically prohibit linking GMRS with POTS.
Recent FCC opinions, since superseded by the PRS reforms, have said "Yes, but only if you don't get your internet from DSL".
The PRS reforms have eliminated the exemptions - GMRS may not be interconnected with POTS.
Here's where it gets hilarious.
POTS is defined nowhere in the Federal Register (any more).
Last time it had a published definition, though, the current global IP telephony system bore absolutely zero resemblance to the POTS network in question.
Per basic Constitutional principles, what isn't prohibited is permitted, so…


I think it is well accepted that POTS is equivalent to the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network). The clear intent of the FCC regulation is to prohibit phone patches. This was probably to avoid competition with the Phone companies and RCCs.

DSL is a transport layer service. It is not per-se a service. DSL is generally used to transport Internet (*IP) services. However, it can also carry PSTN directly and/or you can also carry PSTN over IP (VoIP). Bottom line, connecting GMRS stations over the Internet is not prohibited. Connecting GMRS stations over the PSTN (regardless of how it is delivered) is prohibited.

Also, I’d note, there is no such Constitutional principle. There is a common saying that there are two systems of law: those where anything not prohibited is allowed, and those where anything not allowed is prohibited. But, that is no more than an adage and has no real basis in fact.

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.

-- Marcus Aurelius


#6 WRAK968

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 05:40 PM

Im more curious as to HOW repeaters can be linked. I've looked at TCN's and such but cant find anything that would allow two way linking. Now, I believe part of this is on me, as I do not know what equipment I should be looking for. I did see where users used a portable or handheld with a repeater controller to link, but I fear that the use of GMRS RX frequencies on bubble pack radios could lead to unauthorized TX on a repeater on the other end.



#7 WRAF213

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 12:27 AM

As far as I know, it's AllStarLink-based linking. EchoLink is Amateur Service-only. It's possible to configure an RTCM for GMRS use. The GMRS AllStarLink-based stuff doesn't (and can't) use the Amateur network, and connect to each other as private nodes.

 

As far as the rules go, 95.1733(a)(​8​) determines what kind of linking is allowed -- things that have already been transmitted can't be retransmitted over control links. Remote bases are fine as long as that and 95.1763 are followed (remote base input can't be on GMRS, and is probably networked or PSTN anyways). The rules regarding linking are unclear so everyone just ignores them and waits for the FCC to make a move.

 

The rules don't say POTS, they explicitly state the PSTN. If you can dial its number on a regular cell phone, it's only allowed connection to that for the purposes of being a remote base.

 

There's no constitutional principle privilege since 95.1731 exists.



#8 Corey

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:01 AM

How do you get in on this network?  And are these point-to-point links, or some kind of national or regional network?

 

We are using Asterisk as the server (running on a raspberry pi 3) and the RTCM made by micro-node. Cheaper hardware solutions vs the RTCM are available but require other configuration. I have not used any of the other hardware so I wont touch on that. I chose the RTCM for its single unit design and application specific properties. The interfacing with the RTCM is rather simple, I went with the MTR2000 repeater for reliability, full duty cycle and used market availability. 

 

Our group hosts its own local node server (Asterisk running on a raspberry pi 3) with 6 repeaters connected to it. This local node also allows us access to the MyGMRS national linking network hosted by the owner of this site. By entering commands in Asterisk or using DTMF,  links to other systems can be connected or disconnected on the fly. Things like usage counters and the visual map show links with red lines as well as what site is transmitting by changing its marker from green to red, all of this in real time.

 

Its not as hard as it sounds, Rich from MyGMRS was a huge help, you can also find a linking thread in the private section here. Along the way I found a company that was able to build a custom cable for interfacing the MTR2000 with the RTCM, it provides a reliable solution that's repeatable and works flawless. The MTR2000 repeater can be configured to work with the RTCM rather simply using the repeaters wire-line card to handle the audio and the 96 pin J5 connector to pull ctcss, core, ptt and power.

 

We are using the RTCM and MTR at 6 sites with a stand alone MTR at a 7th and could not be happier. These machines are worth every penny, its not 2 mobiles in a box its a true full duty cycle, commercial grade repeater. Due to the simplicity I have several more RTCM / MRT2000 combos ready to go I just need to fined a few more tower sites with internet.

 

Hope this answers a few questions.


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Just My $.02

 

Corey

 

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https://mwgmrs.com


#9 quarterwave

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:22 PM

DSL is not POTS. The only thing they have in common is the copper. They can be had together or individually on the same line. DSL is not POTS, because phone service is switched, and DSL rides the same copper but does not go through the switch. 

 

The interesting thing about internet is that cable internet providers are not nearly as regulated as DSL providers, who are normally old school telephone companies. They even get taxed differently...which is unfair. 



#10 WRCP828

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 02:54 PM

What is POTS?



#11 UHFJim

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 03:40 PM

What is POTS?

 

POTS stands for Plain Old Telephone Service.   At work we had a dedicated POTS line to be used if our fancy internet linked Avaya phone system went down.

 

https://en.wikipedia...lephone_service



#12 BoxCar

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 03:25 PM

Up until recently the primary advantage of POTS was being on a copper wire. Battery was supplied by the telco's switching office but that's going away with the replacement of copper with fiber.


Old and wise infers you were once young and stupid


#13 Elkhunter521

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 04:26 PM

Hi all,
Maybe im stupid, Ive been told that before, but I don't see a problem. GMRS is a radio service for people that want a family or a friendly radio service. People that just want to pick up a mike and talk.

Why does everyone want to make this into something it is not and never will be.

If you need something more than what it is, get an amature license. I dont have an amature license and Im happy with it.

Wow, you got me ranting. SORRY.
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Be vewy vewy quiet.
I'm listening to my wadio!

#14 Corey

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 05:46 AM

Funny no matter what Forum linking comes up in it always starts a POTS debate, one that's been beat to death. Nothing I do is over POTS, in fact the Asterisk server is sitting on optical fiber and the nodes on dedicated point to point connections or cable. As an IT professional of 25 years I can assure you DSL is not POTS. Unless you are doing an auto patch to a POTS line or using dial up for your internet chances are your internet has been been off the last mile for years.


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Just My $.02

 

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https://mwgmrs.com


#15 JohnE

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 07:31 PM

POTS = phone patch. not legal

radio tie line (RTL)  or leased lines. 2wire or 4 wire direct link from radio to a console. sometimes referred to as remote base  legal


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#16 Corey

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 07:35 AM

Hi all,
Maybe im stupid, Ive been told that before, but I don't see a problem. GMRS is a radio service for people that want a family or a friendly radio service. People that just want to pick up a mike and talk.

Why does everyone want to make this into something it is not and never will be.

If you need something more than what it is, get an amature license. I dont have an amature license and Im happy with it.

Wow, you got me ranting. SORRY.

 

I don't think linking GMRS repeaters is trying to make GMRS something it is not and will never be. We have been linking machines for a few years now and its been great. It has expanded the area of coverage from 30 miles to 3 states with the ability to connect to several other states. If you have friends and family in a different city or state you could still enjoy using GMRS with them by simply linking a repeater in each area together. The owner of this site has a nice system in place, check this out https://link.mygmrs.com/map


  • WRCP828 likes this

Just My $.02

 

Corey

 

Midwest GMRS

https://mwgmrs.com


#17 WRCP828

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 10:28 AM

Can we converse on GMRS via the internet like Echolink for Hams?



#18 Elkhunter521

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 10:31 AM

Hey Corey, Looking at it from a different viewpoint makes a difference. Other than my own trailer mounted repeater, there are none where I live. Gaining that kind of difference in distance is impressive. Sometimes the Symantecs overwhelms the subject. Then again, I do love a good rant.
Be vewy vewy quiet.
I'm listening to my wadio!

#19 Corey

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:40 PM

Can we converse on GMRS via the internet like Echolink for Hams?

 

You are asking the same question that this entire topic is about, I have also provided an answer to your question and here it is again. Echolink is HAM, this is GMRS. Most of the HAM linking systems are based on Asterisk using the Allstar network. Asterisk is the same system that is being used to link GMRS repeaters using the network here at MyGMRS or one of the other GMRS networks that has been set up. Some allow simplex nodes some don't. The MyGMRS network is repeaters as they are more useful. I would suggest you go back an read whats already been posted as your question has been answered already. As well this forum has a topic dedicated to just this... Below is the link you could have found by reading my other post or simply using the forums search box at the top of the page. I don't mind helping or answering anybody's questions so long as you first attempt to find the information on your own. Answering the same questions over and over because people don't want to take the time to look is annoying and a big turnoff.

 

https://forums.mygmr...ing-discussion/


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Just My $.02

 

Corey

 

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https://mwgmrs.com


#20 WRCP828

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 11:45 AM

Thank you for your poignant reply.

 

 

 





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