Decent Cheap SWR Meter?

[Doctnj]

Wow Im glad I came across this thread.  I just got the surecom and havent used it yet but thinking about the connectors it came with it wasnt quite making sense how I could get it in line between an antenna and a mobile unit other than a hand held.  That should be emphasized a little more with that unit I guess.  

[SkylinesSuck]

I talked to Ed Fong on the phone the other day trying to trouble shoot an antenna issue. He commented he didn't like any of the Surecom meters and said he really liked the Nano VNA. He says the vna tested very accurate against his $10k test equipment. I bought one because of that.  It matches my Surecomm 33 meter pretty closely so far.

[mbrun]

I talked to Ed Fong on the phone the other day trying to trouble shoot an antenna issue. He commented he didn't like any of the Surecom meters and said he really liked the Nano VNA. He says the vna tested very accurate against his $10k test equipment. I bought one because of that.  It matches my Surecomm 33 meter pretty closely so far.

The SureCom still has its place though. It can used to confirm frequency, radio power output, and if you want it, real-time online SWR which can be great thing to have to confirm nothing has changed with your antenna system. Admittedly I hardly use mine now that I have a VNA.

BTW, glad to here you talked with Ed. Was he able to help with your issue?


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[SkylinesSuck]

I very much agree with the surecomm part.  The only thing I even know to check for is swr and and if they are accurate for that, they suit my needs.  His comment about them not being accurate pertains to the conversation obviously, but mine was, at least when compared to the vna.

He gave me some things to try and some explanations of how things work, but nothing really helped. I am going to trouble shoot a bit more, but I wanted to get my vna before I got back to him to confirm results. Now that I have and the readings are the same with the vna, I'll give him a call next week.  I also ordered the big comet antenna in the meantime because I just couldn't help myself

[mbrun]

... I also ordered the big comet antenna in the meantime because I just couldn't help myself

Did you order the CA-712EFC or something else?


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[SkylinesSuck]

Yep! That's the one. Couldn't remember the numbers at the time.  I've only read one bad thing about it somewhere saying the dbi they used to measure gain was different than normal dbi or something like that.  Everybody else seems happy with it.

[n4gix]

Mine's been up on my roof tripod for almost 10 years now and still working just great!

 

[Hasaf]

I am also glad I came across this thread. I am getting ready to drill my FJ Cruiser instead of the lip mount that I am using. I was looking at these. I have a Nano VNA, I have no idea which version. So far I can't say I am too happy with it. It is extremely small and hard to read, that said, this is the best Nano VNA SWR video I have seen.

 

This is just a rough look at the ones I have looked at.

MFJ-894	1.6-525MHz	2, 20, 0200	159.95	Large twin needle
MFJ-864	HF/VHF/UHF	30, 300	129.95
MFJ-817	144/220/440	30, 300	129.95
MFJ-849	HF/VHF/UHF	200W	199.95	Large Digital
MFJ-867	144/220/440	400W	189.95	Large Single needle
MFJ-873	125-525	200 W	99.95
SW-102	125-525	125W	56.99	Positive reviews on mygmrs.com
Daiwa 501	140-525	200W	105.99	Positive revirws
Daiwa CN-901	140-525	200W	155.99	Dual needle large display High quality

[WRNA236]

2 hours ago, Hasaf said:

I am also glad I came across this thread. I am getting ready to drill my FJ Cruiser instead of the lip mount that I am using. I was looking at these. I have a Nano VNA, I have no idea which version. So far I can't say I am too happy with it. It is extremely small and hard to read, that said, this is the best Nano VNA SWR video I have seen.

 

This is just a rough look at the ones I have looked at.

MFJ-894	1.6-525MHz	2, 20, 0200	159.95	Large twin needle
MFJ-864	HF/VHF/UHF	30, 300	129.95
MFJ-817	144/220/440	30, 300	129.95
MFJ-849	HF/VHF/UHF	200W	199.95	Large Digital
MFJ-867	144/220/440	400W	189.95	Large Single needle
MFJ-873	125-525	200 W	99.95
SW-102	125-525	125W	56.99	Positive reviews on mygmrs.com
Daiwa 501	140-525	200W	105.99	Positive revirws
Daiwa CN-901	140-525	200W	155.99	Dual needle large display High quality

Saw your list.  I have a MFJ-864 SWR/power meter on the test equipment shelf.  It does the job but it's certainly not a rugged piece of equipment so I'd caution not to use it as field gear very often.  It's intended to be used in your shack and even there it doesn't really inspire confidence.  It's like most things MFJ, which do the job and often fill a role at a price we cheap hams can stomach.  However they are the textbook example for "You get what you pay for" most of the time.  I'd personally go with the Daiwa 501 if you don't need HF coverage.

 

[maddogrecurve]

On 1/21/2021 at 4:02 AM, kb2ztx said:

You get what you pay for. If you have cheap radios then using a cheap meter isn't going to help much. Spend a bit more on the equipment you need to test and you will be pleased. Most likely youll also find all this cheap stuff is not going to perform well enough.

I bought the MFJ Grand Master meter!  I have been impressed with it!  I have a Dosy for C.B/HF and it's nice, but this MFJ seems easier to calibrate and more crisp.

[arctodus]

On 1/20/2021 at 1:29 PM, WRAK968 said:

I use a surecom SW-102, nice little unit,

https://www.amazon.com/Mcbazel-Surecom-Digital-125-525Mhz-Antenna/dp/B01D86IKIQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2JRVRL343HI8D&dchild=1&keywords=surecom+sw-102&qid=1611170816&s=electronics&sprefix=surecom+%2Celectronics%2C360&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A263LSCPZJCHO0&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFQWUVGVVpLTjBDMUkmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA2NjE4OTgxNzlPM0M5UEg1WE1QJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5Mzk4NjcyRk4wV1NUTjJNNVFEJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

I just set up a new gmrs base station with all things new. Got the surecom swr 102 meter and it is showing 19.99 swr man that is scary. Check for short circuit on antenna and coax today and showed no short. I am not transmitting yet but receives GREAT signal can hear grmrs walkie talkie from 11 miles away.  should I send the swr meter back and get a diffrent one are do think that reading may be correct? I need help please

I have Midland radio mxt 400 antenna is a comet CA-712EFC, coax is from jefa Tech ca-213-UHF-50 RG213U

Thanks

[mbrun]

I just set up a new gmrs base station with all things new. Got the surecom swr 102 meter and it is showing 19.99 swr man that is scary. Check for short circuit on antenna and coax today and showed no short. I am not transmitting yet but receives GREAT signal can hear grmrs walkie talkie from 11 miles away.  should I send the swr meter back and get a diffrent one are do think that reading may be correct? I need help please
I have Midland radio mxt 400 antenna is a comet CA-712EFC, coax is from jefa Tech ca-213-UHF-50 RG213U
Thanks

Yes it could be the meter, but it is equally likely you have an issue with your feed-line, antenna, and any adapters you may be using.

Do you have a dummy load available? Putting the dummy load on the SWR meter in place of an antenna and feed-line should give you a 1:1 match. Anything other than that would be a strong indication of an issue with the meter.

Do you have a friend that has a SWR meter that you can contrast yours with? Know of someone with a NanoVNA. Each of these would help you troubleshoot to the next level.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[arctodus]

1 hour ago, mbrun said:

Yes it could be the meter, but it is equally likely you have an issue with your feed-line, antenna, and any adapters you may be using.

Do you have a dummy load available? Putting the dummy load on the SWR meter in place of an antenna and feed-line should give you a 1:1 match. Anything other than that would be a strong indication of an issue with the meter.

Do you have a friend that has a SWR meter that you can contrast yours with? Know of someone with a NanoVNA. Each of these would help you troubleshoot to the next level.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

Thanks for your reply.

What kind of dummy load would I need to get? I don't know anyone with a swr meter. I wish I could work out without having to buy another meter but I will if I have to. Can't transmit until I find where the problem is. And thanks so much for your help.wrmz 867

[mbrun]

Thanks for your reply.
What kind of dummy load would I need to get? I don't know anyone with a swr meter. I wish I could work out without having to buy another meter but I will if I have to. Can't transmit until I find where the problem is. And thanks so much for your help.wrmz 867

Yeh, I agree with you. With an SWR that high I would not operate the radio except for a coupe of seconds to do a brief SWR test until your number is down in the 2:00:1 range

Dummy loads are widely available on Amazon and virtually everywhere SWR meters are sold. They are used whenever you are using an SWR or dedicated power meter to confirm the power output of a radio. A quick search on Amazon for “RF Dummy Load, 50 Ohm“ and it will should turn up many results. Make sure you get one with a frequency range that includes the frequency of your radio as well as one, a connector compatible with your equipment, and a power rating equal too or greater than the max power of the radio(s) you might want to test.

Below is an image of one hooked up to SWR Meter and Radio for simple power test. Note the 1.00:1 SWR reading which is what you should have with a dummy load when hooked up as shown.




Once you have a dummy load, and assuming it shows you a 1:00:1 as it should, the odds are better now that the meter is OK and the problem is with Antenna and/or feed-line and/or adapters you’re using. In this case, additional test equipment and procedures will be needed. If you don’t know anyone with test equipment, perhaps look up on the ARRL website for amateur radio clubs in your area. If you can make contact with one of those clubs I am certain that many members will have the equipment necessary and would be happy to assist you.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[arctodus]

5 hours ago, mbrun said:

Yeh, I agree with you. With an SWR that high I would not operate the radio except for a coupe of seconds to do a brief SWR test until your number is down in the 2:00:1 range

Dummy loads are widely available on Amazon and virtually everywhere SWR meters are sold. They are used whenever you are using an SWR or dedicated power meter to confirm the power output of a radio. A quick search on Amazon for “RF Dummy Load, 50 Ohm“ and it will should turn up many results. Make sure you get one with a frequency range that includes the frequency of your radio as well as one, a connector compatible with your equipment, and a power rating equal too or greater than the max power of the radio(s) you might want to test.

Below is an image of one hooked up to SWR Meter and Radio for simple power test. Note the 1.00:1 SWR reading which is what you should have with a dummy load when hooked up as shown.




Once you have a dummy load, and assuming it shows you a 1:00:1 as it should, the odds are better now that the meter is OK and the problem is with Antenna and/or feed-line and/or adapters you’re using. In this case, additional test equipment and procedures will be needed. If you don’t know anyone with test equipment, perhaps look up on the ARRL website for amateur radio clubs in your area. If you can make contact with one of those clubs I am certain that many members will have the equipment necessary and would be happy to assist you.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

I found the problem to my high swr on my gmrs radio. I was using the wrong connector connected to my new surcom sw 102 swr meter. it was reading 19.99 swr and now reading 1.4 or 1.5 swr and the watt output seems to be close using my 40 watt radio. Just a amature mistake. I am now so happy I can talk on it and not worry about blowing up my new radio. Now I have to figure out how to use repeaters.

Thanks for all your help

WRMZ 867 Bonner Springs Kansas

[WRAK968]

Also note the SW-102 does need fine tuning against a known source like a dummy load or another meter, however at 19-1 reading even on an untuned meter isn't good.

[mbrun]

I found the problem to my high swr on my gmrs radio. I was using the wrong connector connected to my new surcom sw 102 swr meter. it was reading 19.99 swr and now reading 1.4 or 1.5 swr and the watt output seems to be close using my 40 watt radio. Just a amature mistake. I am now so happy I can talk on it and not worry about blowing up my new radio. Now I have to figure out how to use repeaters.
Thanks for all your help
WRMZ 867 Bonner Springs Kansas

Glad you figured it out.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[djxs]

Since I am so new to this, I had never heard of an SWR meter, let alone a dummy load device. With that said, before anything is purchased by me, can anyone answer...does a coiled up (not kinked) antenna cable deteriorate signal in any way? 

When I installed my antenna, I had so much excess cable left (5 - 7 ft). I was unsure of cutting it, so I just left it. I coiled it up (used two plastic cable ties, not tight) and is tucked away neatly by the center console behind the carpet. I was careful as not to create any kinks in the cable whatsoever. Since I do not have an SWR meter or ways to check, I just thought I reach out to others that have some background on this. Thank you. 

[BoxCar]

1 hour ago, djxs said:

Since I am so new to this, I had never heard of an SWR meter, let alone a dummy load device. With that said, before anything is purchased by me, can anyone answer...does a coiled up (not kinked) antenna cable deteriorate signal in any way? 

When I installed my antenna, I had so much excess cable left (5 - 7 ft). I was unsure of cutting it, so I just left it. It is tucked away neatly. Since I have not SWR meter or ways to check, I just thought I reach out to others that have some background on this. Thank you. 

For the most part, coiling cable has no affect. There are exceptions in that a tightly coiled cable can act as a chock or a balun and change the impedance to the antenna. But then we are talking TIGHT coils less than 3 inches in diameter. Loose coils, about a foot or so are not a problem and they can even be squished down so the coil is more oval or even egg shaped with no issues. Kinks are a different matter altogether as they affect the impedance of the cable  at the point of compression.

For an SWR meter, there are a great many choices, with the Surecomm units being fairly decent. Dummy loads are rated in watts as to the amount of power they will handle and are also available from many sources. I have an MFJ unit that will handle up to 300W for about 6 seconds and pretty much laugh off 50 w from the typical mobile. The dummy load takes the place of the antenna so the SWR/power meter goes between the transmitter and the load to measure power. Connect an antenna in place of the dummy load and you can read the amount of power reflected back from an antenna to your radio. The lower amount of reflected power the better.

[djxs]

Thank you @BoxCarfor the very detailed information. 

[wayoverthere]

4 hours ago, djxs said:

Since I am so new to this, I had never heard of an SWR meter, let alone a dummy load device. With that said, before anything is purchased by me, can anyone answer...does a coiled up (not kinked) antenna cable deteriorate signal in any way? 

When I installed my antenna, I had so much excess cable left (5 - 7 ft). I was unsure of cutting it, so I just left it. It is tucked away neatly. Since I have not SWR meter or ways to check, I just thought I reach out to others that have some background on this. Thank you. 

So...conveniently, I have a 5/8 over 5/8 wave Browning UHF antenna and Midland mag mount sitting idle right now, since the truck is in the shop. Dug out the Surecom (sw102) and got some numbers.

Stuck the antenna/mount in the middle of the top of a chest freezer (nothing within 6 inches of the vertical, and only wood/sheetrock any closer than a foot to the sides).

First round, all 15 (or 17, I forget) feet of cable was kind of lazily run around the floor to avoid any coils.  This yielded 1.0 swr on channels 1 (462.5625) and 22 (462.725), and 1.06 on Repeater 22 (467.725).  Second test, I coiled as much cable as I could between the radio and the antenna, ended up with 7 coils approximately 5 inches in diameter. Same channels/frequencies as before showed some minor change, though the cable routing near my computer screens and metal monitor stand to get the straightest routing (and most excess cable) might also have played into it.  Second round numbers (with the coiled cable) were 1.09 on 1, still 1.0 on 22, and 1.07 on Repeater 22....still well within good swr range, all of them.

[djxs]

12 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

So...conveniently, I have a 5/8 over 5/8 wave Browning UHF antenna and Midland mag mount sitting idle right now, since the truck is in the shop. Dug out the Surecom (sw102) and got some numbers.

Stuck the antenna/mount in the middle of the top of a chest freezer (nothing within 6 inches of the vertical, and only wood/sheetrock any closer than a foot to the sides).

First round, all 15 (or 17, I forget) feet of cable was kind of lazily run around the floor to avoid any coils.  This yielded 1.0 swr on channels 1 (462.5625) and 22 (462.725), and 1.06 on Repeater 22 (467.725).  Second test, I coiled as much cable as I could between the radio and the antenna, ended up with 7 coils approximately 5 inches in diameter. Same channels/frequencies as before showed some minor change, though the cable routing near my computer screens and metal monitor stand to get the straightest routing (and most excess cable) might also have played into it.  Second round numbers (with the coiled cable) were 1.09 on 1, still 1.0 on 22, and 1.07 on Repeater 22....still well within good swr range, all of them.

You @wayoverthereare the man! What a great experiment you performed there. In your mind, before you ran the test, were your predicting the outcome to be as the results showed?

[wayoverthere]

1 hour ago, djxs said:

You @wayoverthereare the man! What a great experiment you performed there. In your mind, before you ran the test, were your predicting the outcome to be as the results showed?

Honestly, I went into it open-minded.

I know with excess cable coiled behind the seat, I was still seeing acceptable swr (around 1.1:1 or less) with it mounted on the truck and cable routed inside.

[mbrun]

You [mention=2738]wayoverthere[/mention]are the man! What a great experiment you performed there. In your mind, before you ran the test, were your predicting the outcome to be as the results showed?

That is one of the beauties of the radio hobby and a serious enthusiast who has test equipment. You get to theorize, experiment and observe the results to your questions first hand. Quite wonderful and fun indeed.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[wayoverthere]

1 minute ago, mbrun said:

That is one of the beauties of the radio hobby and a serious enthusiast who has test equipment. You get to theorize, experiment and observe the results to your questions first hand. Quite wonderful and fun indeed.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

This also fits with the growth within a hobby. Realistically, we probably don't start out with the best equipment right out of the gate,we build our toolbox...something decent to start with, and improve, sometimes incrementally. A project here, a project there.

We can learn some from others, but there's no substitute for your own experience.  Some aren't fans of the Surecom meters, and I don't know that they're the most accurate thing out there, but mine have agreed pretty well with each other, and with the little I've played with it, agree pretty close with the nanoVNA as well. Given the variety of sellers across the sites, maybe there's some variance in quality?