Any Tips For Someone Thinking of Getting A H.A.M. License?

[back4more70]

1 hour ago, JoCoBrian said:

Do they still offer free testing down at Our Lady of Perpetual Motion?  I get 100's on all my practice exams, how do I get to take the Master exam, the one above Extra. 

There isn't one above Amateur Extra...?

[marcspaz]

1 hour ago, JoCoBrian said:

Do they still offer free testing down at Our Lady of Perpetual Motion?  I get 100's on all my practice exams, how do I get to take the Master exam, the one above Extra. 

 

You're already an extra... stop messing with people. 

 

I legit LOL'ed at Our Lady of Perpetual Motion.

[WRXN668]

5 minutes ago, back4more70 said:

There isn't one above Amateur Extra...?

thats-the-joke.jpeg

[marcspaz]

7 minutes ago, back4more70 said:

There isn't one above Amateur Extra...?

 

2 minutes ago, WRXN668 said:

thats-the-joke.jpeg

 

Wait... does being a VE count? Pretty sure Brian is a VE anyway... but still a valid question. LoL

[Lscott]

6 hours ago, JoCoBrian said:

Do they still offer free testing down at Our Lady of Perpetual Motion?  I get 100's on all my practice exams, how do I get to take the Master exam, the one above Extra. 

The FCC do have commercial radio telephone licenses, but that’s not part of the Amateur Service.

[WRXN668]

3 minutes ago, Lscott said:

The FCC do have commercial radio telephone licenses, but that’s not part of the Amateur Service.

I was talking about amateur radio with a coworker and another coworker mentioned these classes of license, turns out he has one.  Basically his is for maritime operations predominantly as he was living in a port city at the time he was in trade school.  It's a perpetual license so never expires even if he hasn't used it.  Ostensibly it's for things like ship-to-ship, ship-to-shore, that sort.

[KAF6045]

18 hours ago, WRXN668 said:

I was talking about amateur radio with a coworker and another coworker mentioned these classes of license, turns out he has one.  Basically his is for maritime operations predominantly as he was living in a port city at the time he was in trade school.  It's a perpetual license so never expires even if he hasn't used it.  Ostensibly it's for things like ship-to-ship, ship-to-shore, that sort.

At least in US waters a license is not needed for small craft (personal/pleasure) to use VHF maritime radios. Beyond that, it is the SHIP which gets a station license https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/maritime-mobile/ship-radio-stations/ship-radio-stations and a /restricted/ radiotelephone operator /permit/ needed for if one travels to foreign ports.

The GROL (general radiotelephone operator license, often paired with a radar endorsement) is mostly used to maintain/certify that a maritime radio (or other radio service) is properly installed/grounded/etc.

[Lscott]

21 minutes ago, KAF6045 said:

The GROL (general radiotelephone operator license, often paired with a radar endorsement) is mostly used to maintain/certify that a maritime radio (or other radio service) is properly installed/grounded/etc.

That’s been my understanding as well. 

[WRXN668]

1 hour ago, KAF6045 said:

At least in US waters a license is not needed for small craft (personal/pleasure) to use VHF maritime radios. Beyond that, it is the SHIP which gets a station license https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/maritime-mobile/ship-radio-stations/ship-radio-stations and a /restricted/ radiotelephone operator /permit/ needed for if one travels to foreign ports.

The GROL (general radiotelephone operator license, often paired with a radar endorsement) is mostly used to maintain/certify that a maritime radio (or other radio service) is properly installed/grounded/etc.

I haven't looked into GROL myself, but it sounded like from what he said that a port-based business that uses radio communication with ships would similarly need equipment installed and maintained by someone with such a license, and depending on the size of the operation it might behoove them to have such a person on staff.  This was in the PNW and there are commercial ports, so 20-30 years ago before ubiquitous cellphones this may particularly have made sense even for ships in port.

[MacJack]

57 minutes ago, WRXN668 said:

I haven't looked into GROL myself, but it sounded like from what he said that a port-based business that uses radio communication with ships would similarly need equipment installed and maintained by someone with such a license, and depending on the size of the operation it might behoove them to have such a person on staff.  This was in the PNW and there are commercial ports, so 20-30 years ago before ubiquitous cellphones this may particularly have made sense even for ships in port.

I have to ask what do you want out of being a HAM or going GROL?  Are you on the water or more land bound?  In my case, I have a 12 year old Grand Daughter who we both got our HAM ticket together.... But everyone in the family needs to connect with us via GMRS...  Hope this helps.

 

[WRXN668]

6 hours ago, MacJack said:

I have to ask what do you want out of being a HAM or going GROL?  Are you on the water or more land bound?  In my case, I have a 12 year old Grand Daughter who we both got our HAM ticket together.... But everyone in the family needs to connect with us via GMRS...  Hope this helps.

 

I have no intention of going GROL, even though there are positions at my employer that could benefit, they would be a step down from my current role.

My wife may be willing to get her ham tech license, if only because it means that two adults could operate all of the equipment.

[Lscott]

18 hours ago, MacJack said:

I have a 12 year old Grand Daughter who we both got our HAM ticket together....

That’s good! I like to see more young people getting interested in it. Most of the swaps I go to look like a retirement community get together.

[WRXN668]

35 minutes ago, Lscott said:

That’s good! I like to see more young people getting interested in it. Most of the swaps I go to look like a retirement community get together.

It doesn't help that the amateur community both doesn't understand what a potential younger operator wants, or that some of their terminology irrespective of actual operations isn't helping either.

I'm in my forties, I grew up with BBSes before the Internet was generally available to consumers, and even back then we had Fidonet through some BBSes to exchange e-mail and forums across the globe.  Granted, it took days for post to propagate across the entire net as BBSes only synchronized their messages overnight in waves, but even back then we could communicate with other people at distance without having to install massive antennas, buy expensive radios, and pass exams.  Commercial services like Prodigy, Compuserve, and AOL started making it easier for the average person to get online, and then home Internet access made that easier still, with access to Usenet and then to web-based forums.  And then cell phones became cheap and Internet connected.

My point here is that well-equipped radio shacks and rotating boom antennas for General and Amateur Extra licenses are not going to appeal to someone that isn't already interested in radio communications.  They already have other ways of achieving communications at the sorts of distances that MF and HF radios provide.  There's not a lot of appeal to an outsider to sit at a desk or bench or console to operate radios.

It probably doesn't help that amateur radio has been around for so long that it has established its own vernacular that is weird and foreign to outsiders, up to and including the language for those who would assist new operators.  Elmers?  Really?  Who even wants to be referred to as an Elmer, let alone seek-out the assistance of a person whose informal title sounds more like glue or an inept cartoon character?

Despite already being on the cusp of cell phones I got into amateur radio in the early noughties because I had friends into ham radio, the cost to get into it was low, the test was comparatively easy, the utility was good for person-to-person and vehicle-to-vehicle communications outside of cell coverage or when cell would result in excessive roaming charges, and radios that would serve these purposes were fairly inexpensive.  If GMRS had been popular back then, it might well have been a better solution since the lack of test would have been an even lower barrier to entry and it would probably have been easier to convince friends to get in on it.

If the existing amateur community wants to bring new operators into the fold, they need to look at how amateur radio will benefit those new operators.  And the thing is, the way the amateur licenses are structured this is actually directly in-line with that tiering system.  Technician class only just touches on HF and for only a very limited use, the class is largely structured towards local to regional communications.  This automatically precludes worldwide communications since Technician-class operators can't use bands good for worldwide communications anyway.

So what sorts of things are local and regional communications good for?  Pretty much stuff where the communications are outside of cell service or for those who still aren't yet able to use cell phones.  Caravans/convoys where the group needs to communicate.  Four wheeling groups that want to communicate.  Four-wheeling spotters on difficult obstacles.  Hikers in groups that either get strung-out along a trail or split-up.  Families that go recreating in the wilderness and may split up.  Groups that drive-up separately to four-wheeling or camping and want to meet-up.  Even recreational boating on large lakes where there could be cove/shore/beach camping that needs to be coordinated.  And of course there could be advantages for emergencies away from cell coverage, depending on how popular a given service is within a region.

GMRS is a nice entry-point, more power than FRS for a little more range, but ultimately range-limited due to the choice of band.  GMRS now is what CB was intended to be early on, but while CB suffers because of the choice of an HF band that makes it ripe for abuse, GMRS has an upper bound on range almost no matter how much power someone would try to pump into their signal.  CB was supposed to be regional but it was too easy to make go further, GMRS doesn't have that problem.

Amateur Radio Technician Class would be an excellent next step for those who've been big into GMRS but have found its technical and regulatory limits to be too constrictive.  Multiple bands for less congestion, much further simplex range with similar equipment costs and power output, greater possible power output within the rules.  Those going outside of cell coverage can talk further.  And the advent of digital means they can use technologies that can transmit GPS information and other packet radio data for things like beaconing/locating, both for casual meeting-up and for emergency locating.  Sure, it requires everyone to have passed the test and to have equipment operating on the same bands and modes, but that equipment has become far cheaper than it used to be and the range can be phenomenal.

On Field Day last weekend down in Phoenix I was talking to someone up near Flagstaff on a 25 year old mobile 2m 50W radio that I had just bought and was powering off of a cigarette lighter adapter with a mag-mount antenna with cable pinched through a car door.   I have no doubt that the other operator's station had a really fancy antenna and the benefit of altitude and skip-wave for us to reach each other, but it was pretty amazing considering I had done nothing special at my end at all.  It was eye-opening to my wife, she's now looking at getting licensed too.

Get people initially licensed into the hobby by giving them a reason to do it.  After it's demonstrated useful, some subset will look at upgrading licenses.  Some will look at longer distance communications for the novelty of it.  But that only works once potential operators have gotten over the hump of it being useful to them to begin with and embraced it as something that already suits their own purposes.  If the existing older amateur community can understand that and try to cater towards those groups, that will help to make new hams much more than demonstrating communications across oceans or elaborate ham shacks at home.

 

[OffRoaderX]

Well, this thread went exactly as I predicted.

A very sincere thank you to everyone that posted helpful tips to get licensed, actually answered the question and stayed on topic - you guys give us all hope that ham has a future.

But thank you even more for "some people" doing to this thread, which simply asked for some tips, exactly what "some people" do best.. Proving yet another of the things that I say so often, that "some people" keep declaring is not true/I make it up.  

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, OffRoaderX said:

But thank you even more for "some people" doing to this thread, which simply asked for some tips, exactly what "some people" do best.. Proving yet another of the things that I say so often, that "some people" keep declaring is not true/I make it up.  

Are "some people" the same as "some people" and "some people" or are "some people" actually 'other people' who share the same name ?!?

[WRXN668]

2 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

Well, this thread went exactly as I predicted.

A very sincere thank you to everyone that posted helpful tips to get licensed, actually answered the question and stayed on topic - you guys give us all hope that ham has a future.

But thank you even more for "some people" doing to this thread, which simply asked for some tips, exactly what "some people" do best.. Proving yet another of the things that I say so often, that "some people" keep declaring is not true/I make it up.  

 

The nature of the thread was a foregone conclusion.

[Lscott]

3 hours ago, WRXN668 said:

It doesn't help that the amateur community both doesn't understand what a potential younger operator wants, or that some of their terminology irrespective of actual operations isn't helping either.

I'm in my forties, I grew up with BBSes before the Internet was generally available to consumers, and even back then we had Fidonet through some BBSes to exchange e-mail and forums across the globe.  Granted, it took days for post to propagate across the entire net as BBSes only synchronized their messages overnight in waves, but even back then we could communicate with other people at distance without having to install massive antennas, buy expensive radios, and pass exams.  Commercial services like Prodigy, Compuserve, and AOL started making it easier for the average person to get online, and then home Internet access made that easier still, with access to Usenet and then to web-based forums.  And then cell phones became cheap and Internet connected.

My point here is that well-equipped radio shacks and rotating boom antennas for General and Amateur Extra licenses are not going to appeal to someone that isn't already interested in radio communications.  They already have other ways of achieving communications at the sorts of distances that MF and HF radios provide.  There's not a lot of appeal to an outsider to sit at a desk or bench or console to operate radios.

It probably doesn't help that amateur radio has been around for so long that it has established its own vernacular that is weird and foreign to outsiders, up to and including the language for those who would assist new operators.  Elmers?  Really?  Who even wants to be referred to as an Elmer, let alone seek-out the assistance of a person whose informal title sounds more like glue or an inept cartoon character?

Despite already being on the cusp of cell phones I got into amateur radio in the early noughties because I had friends into ham radio, the cost to get into it was low, the test was comparatively easy, the utility was good for person-to-person and vehicle-to-vehicle communications outside of cell coverage or when cell would result in excessive roaming charges, and radios that would serve these purposes were fairly inexpensive.  If GMRS had been popular back then, it might well have been a better solution since the lack of test would have been an even lower barrier to entry and it would probably have been easier to convince friends to get in on it.

If the existing amateur community wants to bring new operators into the fold, they need to look at how amateur radio will benefit those new operators.  And the thing is, the way the amateur licenses are structured this is actually directly in-line with that tiering system.  Technician class only just touches on HF and for only a very limited use, the class is largely structured towards local to regional communications.  This automatically precludes worldwide communications since Technician-class operators can't use bands good for worldwide communications anyway.

So what sorts of things are local and regional communications good for?  Pretty much stuff where the communications are outside of cell service or for those who still aren't yet able to use cell phones.  Caravans/convoys where the group needs to communicate.  Four wheeling groups that want to communicate.  Four-wheeling spotters on difficult obstacles.  Hikers in groups that either get strung-out along a trail or split-up.  Families that go recreating in the wilderness and may split up.  Groups that drive-up separately to four-wheeling or camping and want to meet-up.  Even recreational boating on large lakes where there could be cove/shore/beach camping that needs to be coordinated.  And of course there could be advantages for emergencies away from cell coverage, depending on how popular a given service is within a region.

GMRS is a nice entry-point, more power than FRS for a little more range, but ultimately range-limited due to the choice of band.  GMRS now is what CB was intended to be early on, but while CB suffers because of the choice of an HF band that makes it ripe for abuse, GMRS has an upper bound on range almost no matter how much power someone would try to pump into their signal.  CB was supposed to be regional but it was too easy to make go further, GMRS doesn't have that problem.

Amateur Radio Technician Class would be an excellent next step for those who've been big into GMRS but have found its technical and regulatory limits to be too constrictive.  Multiple bands for less congestion, much further simplex range with similar equipment costs and power output, greater possible power output within the rules.  Those going outside of cell coverage can talk further.  And the advent of digital means they can use technologies that can transmit GPS information and other packet radio data for things like beaconing/locating, both for casual meeting-up and for emergency locating.  Sure, it requires everyone to have passed the test and to have equipment operating on the same bands and modes, but that equipment has become far cheaper than it used to be and the range can be phenomenal.

On Field Day last weekend down in Phoenix I was talking to someone up near Flagstaff on a 25 year old mobile 2m 50W radio that I had just bought and was powering off of a cigarette lighter adapter with a mag-mount antenna with cable pinched through a car door.   I have no doubt that the other operator's station had a really fancy antenna and the benefit of altitude and skip-wave for us to reach each other, but it was pretty amazing considering I had done nothing special at my end at all.  It was eye-opening to my wife, she's now looking at getting licensed too.

Get people initially licensed into the hobby by giving them a reason to do it.  After it's demonstrated useful, some subset will look at upgrading licenses.  Some will look at longer distance communications for the novelty of it.  But that only works once potential operators have gotten over the hump of it being useful to them to begin with and embraced it as something that already suits their own purposes.  If the existing older amateur community can understand that and try to cater towards those groups, that will help to make new hams much more than demonstrating communications across oceans or elaborate ham shacks at home.

 

If a young person wants brain dead communication the. by all means use their cell phone.

If they want a technical challenge then Ham Radio is where it’s at. 
 

Even a Tech class license you can get worldwide communications using various digital modes. Set up an internet connected repeater for digital and maintain it.

Then there is satellite communications to test skill level, moon bounce etc. 

[WRXN668]

3 minutes ago, Lscott said:

If a young person wants brain dead communication the. by all means use their cell phone.

If they want a technical challenge then Ham Radio is where it’s at. 
 

Even a Tech class license you can get worldwide communications using various digital modes. Set up an internet connected repeater for digital and maintain it.

Then there is satellite communications to test skill level, moon bounce etc. 

Perhaps, but given the sheer number of things people can choose to do with their time, it's no surprise if people opt to use their time elsewhere and to opt for an easy method of communication.

If one wishes to bring more hobbyists into the fold that wouldn't have otherwise been interested is to show how the hobby could be valuable to them for their other interests.  If amateur radio or really any other hobby does nothing but navel-gaze (ie, using ham radio just to talk about ham radio) then it's not going to appeal to a broader audience.  However if a whole lot of people get into a hobby because it benefits them in other ways, then some will start enjoying that hobby for its own sake, or may even be able to tailor their other hobbies into supporting this one.

Field Day is a perfect example.  Someone who's interested in camping might well choose to go camping that weekend, in a nice high remote spot away from most other people, and to occupy some of their time they might well set up a station and try to make contacts.  They enjoyed camping before, but now they've added a new reason to go camping.  This may well be similar to those who go camping to go stargazing in a dark-sky region, or to camp in order to look at wildlife, or to hunt, or to make an amateur study of geology. 

[mrgmrs]

Good luck to all youtube GMRS content providers - I mean someone - on pursuing and getting their ham license.

[MarkInTampa]

 

On 7/2/2023 at 7:26 PM, Lscott said:

If a young person wants brain dead communication the. by all means use their cell phone.

If they want a technical challenge then Ham Radio is where it’s at. 
 

Even a Tech class license you can get worldwide communications using various digital modes. Set up an internet connected repeater for digital and maintain it.

Then there is satellite communications to test skill level, moon bounce etc. 

Digital and sat are interesting but I got my license last month just because of monitoring a few 2m simplex channels. They sounded like a good group of folks. One of my GMRS friends got his ticket, joined the group and convinced me to do the same after letting my license expire 20 years ago. Kinda cool to do VHF simplex 30 miles but still primarily use GMRS for repeaters - just a bit more relaxed than ham repeaters are. Just got my 4th ARRL letter in the mail today asking to join in a month, that is annoying. They serve their propose I suppose but come on....

To OP (OffRoaderX), you are a smart guy and know your way around radios, probably more so than 95% of other GMRS users. Hit up hamsudy.org and take a sample test and see how you do or just run through the entire test question pool a few times and I'm sure you will ace it.

[pcradio]

On 5/14/2023 at 6:16 PM, OffRoaderX said:

Just curious what tips all the licensed H.A.M. operators would give to someone thinking about getting their H.A.M. license.

Randy, you absolutely need to get your ham ticket! Then maybe you could use your public platform to help fix things in the industry. It has languished for so many years in stifling regulation, poor user experiences, confusingly laid-out hardware & software, and archaic rules that don't help new or established groups to communicate. Come on in Randy! The water is boiling!

[OffRoaderX]

15 minutes ago, pcradio said:

maybe you could use your public platform to help fix things in the industry. It has languished for so many years in stifling regulation, poor user experiences, confusingly laid-out hardware & software, and archaic rules that don't help new or established groups to communicate.

The H.A.M.s shall reap what they sow while i use my "cheap Chinese toys" ...

[nokones]

I'm not sure even if the FCC dropped the testing requirement for a HAM entry level license, I would be interested in being licensed for the HAM band. I have had my GMRS license since the mid-90s and I am perfectly happy with what GMRS has to offer. I also have a Part 90 Business Radio Station Authorization (License) with a long list of UHF frequencies and I do use those frequencies.

I use to have a list of VHF frequencies on my license but, hever used them so I removed them from the license.

If I was a HAM licensee, I don't think I would play in the 2M band not sure why, just don't seem to have any interest. 

I am a member of two GMRS clubs. One is highly active in the community and provides services when needed for the community.

And I do enjoy playing with my Part 90 Type-Accepted radios on the GMRS channels

 

[wrci350]

1 hour ago, nokones said:

And I do enjoy playing with my Part 90 Type-Accepted radios on the GMRS channels

I'm sure they all have Part 95 type-acceptance too, yes?

[nokones]

1 minute ago, wrci350 said:

I'm sure they all have Part 95 type-acceptance too, yes?

They don't have to be Part 95 type-accepted to be legal to use on Part 95 Subpart E freqs. Part 95 allows the use of Part 90 type-accepted radio units on GMRS channels.