Do repeaters increase the range of which you can reach them?

[WSAN206]

Not sure if that makes sense - I asked this in a FB GMRS page and never really got a response.  
What I don’t understand is how am I able to reach a repeater with my 5w baofeng 40-50 miles away?  If there was someone standing next to that repeater with another handheld, could reach them on simplex?  
Or is there something about a repeater that allows you to reach it further than a standard radio? 
Thanks! 

[OffRoaderX]

Your Baofeng and the hypothetical baofeng standing next to the repeater have 6 inch antennas, low quality components, and output only a couple of watts..
The repeater has (probably) a perfectly tuned 10-foot or larger antenna, (probably) very high-end expensive and very sensitive components, and is outputting (probably) upwards of 50 watts.. So not only can the repeater hear everything much better than your $19 Baofeng, but it can squirt it's RF electricities many more fars as well.

[AdmiralCochrane]

Even more simplified: if you were standing out in the clear would you see the repeater antenna with a telescope?  Would you see the person with the HT without a telescope? 

[WSAG780]

 

So how many fars away from a repeater can my Baofeng reach a repeater?

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, WSAG780 said:

 

So how many fars away from a repeater can my Baofeng reach a repeater?

I usually get about 20miles simplex with a 5w HT and the repeater I use is 34miles away.  Your results may vary. 

[OffRoaderX]

33 minutes ago, WSAG780 said:

So how many fars away from a repeater can my Baofeng reach a repeater?

Just had someone testing my repeater with his Baofeng and stock antenna and he was hitting it from 45 miles away.  But that was with decent line of sight, your fars will vary.

[WRYZ926]

Terrain, foliage, buildings, etc will all play a part in how far you can talk. The guys located in the wide open desert will have more range than most of us in the eastern half of the country. As mentioned, repeaters have better equipment, coax and antennas and are usually high up in the air.

The local repeater tower is 21.5 miles away from me. I can make it into the local 2m repeater from my house with any of my hand held radios. The Icom and Explorer QRZ-1 do better than my Baofeng radios. I can get into the GMRS repeater n the same tower but only with my Wouxun KG-935G hand held. The 70cm repeater antenna is also on the same tower and at the same height as the 2m repeater antenna. I can not get into the 70cm repeater at all with any of my hand held radios.

[WRQC527]

3 hours ago, WSAN206 said:

Or is there something about a repeater that allows you to reach it further than a standard radio? 

Sort of. Repeaters often have high-gain antennas that allow them to "hear" better than "standard" mobile or handheld radios. For example, the 70 cm, 2 meter and 1200 Mhz  amateur radio repeaters I have use collinear antennas that are from 10-15 feet tall. Another factor is that high-end repeaters often have better receivers than your average HT or mobile radio, as well as better filtering and coax.

[CALO50]

Great questions and replies!

[WSAN206]

Thank you all so much.  That’s kinda what I figured.   They’re able to reach out and hear Better to extend my Transmission.  I’m absolutely shocked by the  performance of even the cheaper radios.   10x better than the bubble pack FRS I have and less money.  

[SvenMarbles]

The more succinct answer is that repeater antennas are up high. If your friend with his handheld was dangling from the same tower, he'd hear you fine on his Baofeng too.  It's about line of sight. But at that same distance if he were standing down on the ground, probably not.. So yes, they increase YOUR capability of reaching them because they're up high and listening with relatively clear  line of sight..

It's why we all try to put our VHF/UHF antennas up as high as we can. When you get up on your roof, how far can you see on a clear day? And how far can you see from the sidewalk? It's basically that simple.

[Guest Andrew]

Hello, I thought maybe I could tag onto this thread since my question is partly about repeaters.  Are you able to transmit through multiple repeaters? My buddy and I are evaluating options for a scenario where both cell and internet is down. He has a son in college 250 miles away he's trying to ensure he can communicate with.  We are both learning more about GMRS since only one person in each family needs a license.  We've looked at the Baofeng AR-152 and the Midland MXT-575 so far.  In a perfect set up, is there any way using GMRS technology and equipment to reach his son that far away under those circumstances?  I do see that repeaters seem to be prevalent in TN where we live.  If not, any other suggestions.  Thanks for any feedback.

[WRWE456]

Hello and welcome!

The problem is that in a grid down type of situation repeaters can be down as well because most are powered from the grid, although some have back up batteries or generators maybe solar even. So they can not be relied on for emergency communications planning. VHF and UHF (GMRS is UHF) are basically line of sight communications. If the two antennas can see each other then they can talk. If you can both get enough altitude as in hill top to hill top you may get 100 miles or more. 250 miles? Not likely. For that distance you will need to look to the ham radio world.

There is a lot to learn about radio comms for it to be effective in emergencies or just to be competent with it in general.

Look for better quality radios for emergency use. They need to be reliable.

[SvenMarbles]

12 hours ago, WRWE456 said:

Hello and welcome!

The problem is that in a grid down type of situation repeaters can be down as well because most are powered from the grid, although some have back up batteries or generators maybe solar even. So they can not be relied on for emergency communications planning. VHF and UHF (GMRS is UHF) are basically line of sight communications. If the two antennas can see each other then they can talk. If you can both get enough altitude as in hill top to hill top you may get 100 miles or more. 250 miles? Not likely. For that distance you will need to look to the ham radio world.

There is a lot to learn about about radio comms for it to be effective in emergencies or just to be competent with it in general.

Look for better quality radios for emergency use. They need to be reliable.

Yeah 250 miles probably isn't going to be practical. Impossible? no.. I mean if you wanted to pour endless amounts of money getting a couple of high mounted repeater placements on some towers and daisy-chain them, then you could achieve it. But then as you point out, it would run kind of contrary to the whole point of emergency coms. Too many points of possible failure.

It sounds like the guy is looking for something more peer-to-peer (simplex). Even in the ham radio side of things, you can't exactly achieve that in a reliable way. There's nothing inherently different about 2m and 70cm ham, just different licensing. And on the HF side, you can talk around the world, but only when the conditions cooperate. You can't pick the landing spots of your signal. So that's kind of out for "emergency coms'. NVIS would be semi-reliable for a 250 mile wide shine down spot, but now you're getting into some pretty elaborate gear, a general license, antenna-ry, and a crowd of "ham guys" that might be annoyed that you're using the band that way and not just calling CQ and making contacts. 

There's only one remaining option that I can think of. LoRa. Theoretically, if you can run a trail of nodes (and find places that they can live) all along the way maybe about 15-30 miles apart, then you could have something. This is going to be more of a texting back and forth type thing though, but it would be off-grid, reliable, and doable...

[WRWE456]

There are of course Sat phones and they do work well however you are still relying on someone else's network. I asked my sat phone provider what would happen if they were unable to function if SHTF and they said the phone would work for 60 days after last payment was made. So even that is limited in a longer term outage. Still may be the best option however as they are easy to operate. Just need a clear view of the sky so anyone can operate them without much technical ability. 

[SteveShannon]

14 hours ago, Guest Andrew said:

Hello, I thought maybe I could tag onto this thread since my question is partly about repeaters.  Are you able to transmit through multiple repeaters? My buddy and I are evaluating options for a scenario where both cell and internet is down. He has a son in college 250 miles away he's trying to ensure he can communicate with.  We are both learning more about GMRS since only one person in each family needs a license.  We've looked at the Baofeng AR-152 and the Midland MXT-575 so far.  In a perfect set up, is there any way using GMRS technology and equipment to reach his son that far away under those circumstances?  I do see that repeaters seem to be prevalent in TN where we live.  If not, any other suggestions.  Thanks for any feedback.

Amateur radio licenses and HF radios on 40 meters with a wire antenna is your best option.  I use it every Monday, Wednesday and Friday morning to very reliably chat with folks from Canada to western Washington, distances up to 450 miles.

[WRWE456]

I'm just thinking of a college student and his ability to set up much of ham station. Would depend on his living situation I guess. I'm sure he could handle more studying for another test LOL!

[WQAI363]

On 2/9/2024 at 7:38 PM, Guest Andrew said:

Hello, I thought maybe I could tag onto this thread since my question is partly about repeaters.  Are you able to transmit through multiple repeaters? My buddy and I are evaluating options for a scenario where both cell and internet is down. He has a son in college 250 miles away he's trying to ensure he can communicate with.  We are both learning more about GMRS since only one person in each family needs a license.  We've looked at the Baofeng AR-152 and the Midland MXT-575 so far.  In a perfect set up, is there any way using GMRS technology and equipment to reach his son that far away under those circumstances?  I do see that repeaters seem to be prevalent in TN where we live.  If not, any other suggestions.  Thanks for any feedback.

The main part of good communication isn't whether you're Hi power or Low power. I has to with Antenna system. You could have the best performing radio, but if you don't have proper antenna, all you're doing is cooking your radio. A 4watt HT can do just as a 5watt Mobile on simplex. The most important thing for Handheld is holding Radio straight, even on repeaters. Now You said something about using multiple repeaters, I guess you could use repeaters, but the sounds more like roaming feature, which used P-25 systems and DMR. I won't say that you won't find that on analogue conventional, but I don't of any on GMRS or Analogue Amateur Repeaters. But yes, if have permission or all the repeaters around you are open, then yes it's possible to use multi repeaters.

[WSAQ406]

That is a lot of fars