Equipment Needed

[Guest Steve]

I'm looking for help. I have my GMRS license and would like to be able to communicate with my family if cell towers go down or worse. At any given time we are within 30 miles of each other, either at home or work. We have no major cities between us and the elevation changes are 200'. Unfortunately, I have no repeaters in the area. what equipment will we need to make this work? Also, can mobile units be adapted to AC. I appreciate any help you can give me.

[wrci350]

30 miles simplex on UHF is possible given ideal circumstances (mountain top to mountain top, for example, or two locations in the desert with no vegetation or sand dunes in the way) but probably not going to work for you.  If there *was* a repeater in a good location then that would be doable.  

The other question is easier:  absolutely.  Just get a power supply.  This is a good one, but there are lots of less expensive alternatives:

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/alo-dm-330mvt

[Guest Steve]

So I'm basically dead in the water? What range (I know there many factors) might I expect? 

[WRYZ926]

30 miles simplex can be a push even for 25 or 50 watt radios depending on the local terrain, etc. a 200 foot elevation change is not much unless there are hills in between both radios.

The Alinco power supply linked above is a good one and here is a cheaper alternative from R & L electronics for $109. I've been using a R & L 30 watt power supply to power my 50 watt GMRS radio and 50 watt dual band radio without any issues. I don't transmit on both at the same time on high power though.

https://www2.randl.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13_9110&products_id=74100

If you can swing it, each location with a mobile GMRS radio and antennas as high as you can get them should work. Again that will depend on the terrain, trees, etc between the two.

[wrci350]

Totally depends on terrain and vegetation, buildings, etc, but generally less than 10 miles.  Often much less.

If someone "sold" you on GMRS being the solution to this problem, they mislead you.

[wrci350]

1 minute ago, WRYZ926 said:

If you can swing it, each location with a mobile GMRS radio and antennas as high as you can get them should work. Again that will depend on the terrain, trees, etc between the two.

If the OP is only concerned about two locations that might be a solution.  But not an option if we are talking about a more general use case (people at multiple locations, driving around, etc.)

[WRXP381]

I can do 200miles with a 20w base and a comet antenna.  It’s possible.  I’d recommend a 50w base station and a comet 9db gain  712efc OR even a 12db gain yagi directional if it’s only 2 locations.  Get that antenna up as high as possible.  

[WRYZ926]

9 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

If the OP is only concerned about two locations that might be a solution.  But not an option if we are talking about a more general use case (people at multiple locations, driving around, etc.)

This is true. But messages can be relayed between different radios if at least one base station with a good antenna up high is in the mix and can communicate with all near by radios.

Relaying messages is common and we do it all the time when conducting simplex nets on 2m and 70cm bands. There is no reason why it can't be done on GMRS either.

[Guest Steve]

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses. I have a lot of homework to do and please keep responding if there are other suggestions. I'm very surprised there is no repeater between Cleveland (Cuyahoga County)and Medina (Medina County) Ohio.

[WRXP381]

1 hour ago, Guest Steve said:

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses. I have a lot of homework to do and please keep responding if there are other suggestions. I'm very surprised there is no repeater between Cleveland (Cuyahoga County)and Medina (Medina County) Ohio.

There very well may be but just not listed.  Might also be an opportunity to start a group.  Get the radios up and start listening. Or even buy a cheap $20 hand held and listen and see what’s actually out there. 

[GreggInFL]

This is my profile to the local repeater, which is challenging to hit with a 5W given the vegetation.  You may be fighting some elevation issues:

https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/

[WSAM454]

If your family is all in the same place, you might consider using directional antennas (beam, aka Yagi antennas) aimed at one another.   That would increase the gain of both receive and transmit at each end.   They must be as high as possible, and you might have to 'aim' them with the help of cell phone communication to get them set up.  Best results would be using 50 Watt radios at each end on the appropriate high-power channels.

Beams can also be rotated, so you could have two locations to rotate the antenna to.

Not recommending any thing in particular, but just to give you some basic starting info:

Two examples of beam antennas:

https://www.arrowantennas.com/solid/464-7s.html

https://buyantenna.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=602

 

Rotors:

https://www2.randl.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_6020&products_id=67461

https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-007316

 

[WSAW350]

21 hours ago, Guest Steve said:

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses. I have a lot of homework to do and please keep responding if there are other suggestions. I'm very surprised there is no repeater between Cleveland (Cuyahoga County)and Medina (Medina County) Ohio.

I'm in the same boat, I'm in the beginning stages of getting a base station setup to communicate (simplex) with my son 20+ miles away in the Dallas area; relatively flat terrain, but lots of homes, outdoor shopping centers, schools, etc. in between. We do have a repeater in-between us, but the idea is for simplex comms in case that is not an option. Basically two way emergency comms if "things" go south. 

It  looks like buying the best possible base equipment/ cabling/antenna system  at both ends of transmission and actually trying it out is the only solution, since there is no real magic formula to this endeavor, nothing written in stone. I know someone here said they got 200 miles in distance, but I'll bet he doesn't live in the Dallas/Ft Worth metroplex.

If we fail in in direct two-way comms, we'll still have the repeater, plus each of us will have a bitchen' GMRS setup anyways. My other contacts will be within 11 miles and closer. And 20+ miles away is a gamble, a crap shoot, but a chance I'm willing to take.

[WRYZ926]

@WSAW350 20-25 miles should be doable if you both are running good antennas with good coax. The trick is to get both antennas as high as you can at each location. I can talk to a friend that is about 24 miles away on simplex. We are both using Comet CA-712 antennas, his is 30 feet above ground while mine is 18 feet above ground. We are both using the KG-1000G Plus radio and we have to use high power (50 watts). 

How noisy your area is (RF noise) will also make a difference.

[wrci350]

On 3/15/2024 at 11:20 AM, WRXP381 said:

I can do 200miles with a 20w base and a comet antenna.  It’s possible.

Tell us more.  200 miles simplex on UHF?  Are you on top of a mountain, surrounded by desert?

[WRXP381]

27 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

Tell us more.  200 miles simplex on UHF?  Are you on top of a mountain, surrounded by desert?

Im at 4200’ in the California high desert. Yes UHF, GMRS frequency’s.     I can easily talk with folks simplex and to the repeaters in Las Vegas Nevada over 200 miles away.   They are at 6000ft.  This is with a $100 20w base radio powered with an agm battery at 12.4 volts. IM actually putting out about 17watts from the radio.       I have 50ft of lmr400 with a comet 712efc at 30ft.    Im not saying that every one can do this,.  What I’m pointing out is if you have line of site you do not need expensive high powered radios.   If you don’t have line of site no amount of money or wattage is going to help much if at all.   Heck my $20 HTs easily do 30 miles simplex and the 20w radios in the trucks do 50-60 miles simplex.    Gotta get those antennas up as high as possible.   

[nokones]

On 3/15/2024 at 10:40 AM, WRXP381 said:

There very well may be but just not listed.  Might also be an opportunity to start a group.  Get the radios up and start listening. Or even buy a cheap $20 hand held and listen and see what’s actually out there. 

You should look at to see if the Parma and North Ridgeville repeaters can meet your needs.

[nokones]

On 3/16/2024 at 5:24 PM, WRXP381 said:

Im at 4200’ in the California high desert. Yes UHF, GMRS frequency’s.     I can easily talk with folks simplex and to the repeaters in Las Vegas Nevada over 200 miles away.   They are at 6000ft.  This is with a $100 20w base radio powered with an agm battery at 12.4 volts. IM actually putting out about 17watts from the radio.       I have 50ft of lmr400 with a comet 712efc at 30ft.    Im not saying that every one can do this,.  What I’m pointing out is if you have line of site you do not need expensive high powered radios.   If you don’t have line of site no amount of money or wattage is going to help much if at all.   Heck my $20 HTs easily do 30 miles simplex and the 20w radios in the trucks do 50-60 miles simplex.    Gotta get those antennas up as high as possible.   

I doubt that Ohio has any desert area or that type of terrain.