Best stationary antenna?

[WSCF926]

I'm new to GRMS, and have a UV5G+ handheld that am looking to get more range from when at home. What would be the best option for antenna, coax, etc, mounted to my roof or  siding, to go long ranges (10-15 miles)? I live in a suburb of Chicago where there are a lot of houses and trees, but it is relatively flat with an elevation of 700' . 
Thanks!

[OffRoaderX]

That really depends on how you define "Best", and what is most important to you when shopping for an antenna.

[WSCF926]

Best, to me would be range, and voice quality. I'm am an electrician by trade, so not real concerned about ease of installation, but nothing tech heavy. Don't want to have to go to school to learn how to program it, just want to talk to my son on the other side of town LOL. Any suggestions for other things I should be considering?

[BoxCar]

Like Randy says, how do you define "Best". A handheld unit is not the best for attaching to an antenna for base station use. It will work, but not well. I would recommend you look for a 20 to 25W mobile radio with a 15A power supply. The mobile will require 7 to 8 amps of power draw while transmitting, and a 15W power supply will supply at least 11A continuously. For your coaxial cable between the radio and your antenna, use LMR400 or equivalent from one of the amateur radio dealers like The Wireman, Gigaparts, Ham Radio Outlet, or DXEngineering and not the cheapie stuff from Amazon. The antenna you use is the most important piece of the kit, and for that there are several recommendations on this site.

[WSAM454]

You asked about antennas and coax, so my thoughts:

The Comet vertical antennas are popular.   If you plan on a run of more than about 30 feet of coax, then you will want a low-loss type cable, especially  if you are using only a  5 Watt HT.   You can loose almost half of that power just getting the signal to the antenna if the cable is not of good quality and low loss.   The most popular is called Times' LMR-400 cable, which is a low-loss cable, about 1/2" in diameter.   Even lower loss, but more expensive,is M & P Ultraflex 10, also about 1/2" in diameter.  Avoid the smaller diameter (1/4") cables, like RG8x and RG58, as their loss is too great.   Quick searches will give you info on them as well as the Comet antenna GMRS line.  As BoxCar mentioned, your best bet would be with a 25 Watt mobile type radio in the house, especially if your surroundings are pretty much flat and not at a high elevation.  You mentioned being at about 700', but is the area is flat , then everything nearby is also at 700' and you will need to get the antenna as high as practical.    Mounted to the side of the house means it will be about 30 or so feet above the ground; a good starting point.

[WRYZ926]

I'm going to echo everyone else's comments. Yes a 5 watt hand held will work when attached to an external base antenna. It won't be the most convenient to use, especially without a hand mic. Some type of mobile radio along with a good antenna will work better than any hand held. Don't skimp on the coax either.

A good mag mounted mobile antenna placed on a metal surface (cookie) sheet will work better than any hand held antenna. Neither will work as well as a good base antenna. The Comet CA-712EFC is a popular choice for good reasons, they work well.

As noted, stay away from RG8X and RG58, they are very lossy. RG8 would be better than RG8X/RG58 but still not ideal for UHF. LMR400 or equivalent coax is what you want, especially if the run is more than 30 feet. Also avoid the cheap coax from Amazon and eBay. 

[WSAA254]

I think I will echo what everyone else has pretty much been saying.  Quality coax (lmr400) and antenna height.  My own personal setup was driven by hi windy conditions here.   We can have weeks of 20-30 mph winds.   So antenna size was important.   Fortunately gmrs frequencys lend themselves to small antennas.  I use a compactenna scan - III since I also use the same antenna with a SDR.  There are probably better gmrs specific antennas that are less expensive, however I can hit a repeater 50 miles away at 5 watts, but this would not be possible without the elevations involved.  Other folks around here have also hit the same repeater with a hand held at 5 watts, this just re-enforces the idea of height being king.   My antenna is only about 10ft, and has survived 70 mph winds, the antenna is consistanly  hit with 30 mph winds.  Hope this helps, best of luck...  All info is good info....   regards..   UPDATE:  I just added the swr results, this is taken after the antenna switch using the same coax connected to he xmitter.

Edited April 14 by WSAA254
Adding SWR results from nano vna h4

[WRXR255]

I know from my reading through this thread, that the best cable to get for GMRS is LMR 400, but what about KMR 400?

I know nothing about this but learning as I am thinking about repurposing a mag mount from a mobile as I have a new antenna for that, and using the old as a base antenna.

 

Heres what I saw on amazon, but the description...

 

Not sure its a good idea to use the antenna analy..  8-P

[WRYZ926]

I would personally stay away from coax cables from Amazon. Yes good quality coax is expensive. But good coax and a good antenna as high as you can get it makes a world of difference.

DX Engineering brand coax is pretty good and normally cheaper that Times LMR400 and M & P coax. https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/coaxial-cable-assemblies?N=coaxial-cable-type%3A400max

[SteveShannon]

17 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

I would personally stay away from coax cables from Amazon. Yes good quality coax is expensive. But good coax and a good antenna as high as you can get it makes a world of difference.

DX Engineering brand coax is pretty good and normally cheaper that Times LMR400 and M & P coax. https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/coaxial-cable-assemblies?N=coaxial-cable-type%3A400max

I would agree with a slight clarification.  Good quality cables are available at Amazon if you know what you are looking for.  A person can buy Times-Microwave or M&P cables there, but you pay considerably more than you pay for the same cables from DX Engineering, Gigaparts, or Ham Radio Outlet.

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, WSAA254 said:

I think I will echo what everyone else has pretty much been saying.  Quality coax (lmr400) and antenna height.  My own personal setup was driven by hi windy conditions here.   We can have weeks of 20-30 mph winds.   So antenna size was important.   Fortunately gmrs frequencys lend themselves to small antennas.  I use a compactenna scan - III since I also use the same antenna with a SDR.  There are probably better gmrs specific antennas that are less expensive, however I can hit a repeater 50 miles away at 5 watts, but this would not be possible without the elevations involved.  Other folks around here have also hit the same repeater with a hand held at 5 watts, this just re-enforces the idea of height being king.   My antenna is only about 10ft, and has survived 70 mph winds, the antenna is consistanly  hit with 30 mph winds.  Hope this helps, best of luck...  All info is good info....   regards

You need a few more zip-ties on the cable. I imagine that's to try and take the weight off the cable connector at the base of the antenna.

[SteveShannon]

(As I’m sure you know) The problem with zip ties like that is a zip tie concentrates too much force in a small area which can crush the foam dielectric, resulting in impedance issues and SWR problems. 
A cable grip is a better choice:

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/tmv-hg-400t?rrec=true

[WRYZ926]

A cable grip is the better method. But zip ties do work as long as you don't over tighten them. I agree that you don't want to over tighten zip ties.

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

A cable grip is the better method. But zip ties do work as long as you don't over tighten them. I agree that you don't want to over tighten zip ties.

Yes, and having many zip ties like the photo shows definitely reduces the need to tighten each zip tie individually and reduces risk. 

[WSAA254]

Appreciate the info.   I did not tighten them much.  I kind of assume they will fall off withing a year, due to sun/elements.  Then I will go for cable grip.  Current SWR is 1.1-1.4 depending on frequency, so far so good.   The coax is a lmr400, so it seems to be robust.  Good info appreciate the feedback...  All info is good info   regards

[hfd376]

On 4/9/2024 at 4:33 PM, Sshannon said:

(As I’m sure you know) The problem with zip ties like that is a zip tie concentrates too much force in a small area which can crush the foam dielectric, resulting in impedance issues and SWR problems. 
A cable grip is a better choice:

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/tmv-hg-400t?rrec=true

I might be wrong, but I think the cable grip's purpose in life is to hoist the coax up to you. You would use a different device to attach and support the coax on the mast.

[SvenMarbles]

The best possible is a Yagi if you can run one.

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, hfd376 said:

I might be wrong, but I think the cable grip's purpose in life is to hoist the coax up to you. You would use a different device to attach and support the coax on the mast.

The description at DX Engineering says:

Times Microwave Coaxial Cable Hoisting Grips

Times Microwave Coaxial Cable Hoisting Grips provide an effective method for lifting coaxial cable to the top of a structure, where it may then be tied off to support the cable's weight. Cable hoisting grips will not crush or deform the cable being lifted, but easily release the cable when desired. They are available in several sizes to hoist a multitude of cable types.

An excerpt from the manufacturer’s instructions are included below. They say something similar in their description.