Linked repeaters (multiple states)

[DarkDaze]

hello. I'm brand new to GMRS and was wondering if it was possible to program my radio (UV-5R) to talk to my friend from Texas to California? we've been looking into affordable ways to communicate in any type of grid down or SHTF situation that isn't gonna cost us an arm and a leg. TIA! also I'd love to hear any suggestions on how we can communicate in those kinds of situations if yo know any tricks.

[gortex2]

In a grid down or SHTF scenario I'm guessing internet would also be down. If thats the case then there would be no link if there was linked repeaters in both areas. Personally in that situation HF on Ham Radio or cell phone are the best alternatives. 

[SteveShannon]

As @gortex2 mentioned: HF ham radio.  40 meters would probably be easiest. You really don’t need a high powered transmitter.  Get your technician license and use Morse code or your general license if you want to use voice, start attending swap meets, and learn all you can about antennas. 

[back4more70]

If you hold your radio up to a telephone while transmitting, your friend on the other end of the line will hear it 

[WRKC935]

To the OP, don't think this is specifically an attack on you.  This is a more general statement because this question gets ask here and on numerous Ham Radio forums all the time.

I don't understand how people get the idea that they are going to replace hundreds of millions of dollars in infrastructure (CELL and PSTN) communications systems with a 35 dollar license and a 40 dollar handheld radio.   Is there some web site someplace telling people this is even possible?  Has the lack of technical understanding of communications reached a point that this question can even be ask honestly? 

The only way that you are going to talk to someone in California consistently with a UHF radio is get in your car and drive there.  Sit outside their house and have the conversation simplex (radio to radio).  Other than that, your out of luck. 

As others have mentioned, Ham radio using HF (frequencies below 30 Mhz) makes it possible, but BOTH of you have to be licensed to do that.  You are both going to need a reasonable sized antenna to do it, and it's not going to work 24/7 due to propagation of the radio signal.  And frankly it's not going to be cheap.  It's not going to be millions of dollars, but it's at least going to be thousands if not tens of thousands.  Because the more you spend, the more consistently you will be able to get a signal across that divide.  And if you are talking grid down SHTF situations, then you are looking at solar and wind power at BOTH ends because even generators require electricity to continure to operate.  Now I realize that a generator MAKES power.  But it really doesn't MAKE anything.  It converts the energy in fuel to electrical energy.  How do you get the fuel in a grid down?  Normally you would just go to the gas station and get a few gallons of gas.  In a grid down SHTF world, the gas stations don't have electricity, so you ain't getting fuel.  And in those scenario's some fool with guns is standing there at the gas station demanding food, gold, ammo or something for that fuel if they can get it out of the tanks.  

Here's a solid truth for guys that are trying to figure out prepping and dealing with a SHTF situation watching YouTube videos.  No one that actually knows how to deal with these situations are going to tell you their secrets.  Because having stuff is one thing.  Knowing how to get stuff, and live in a manner close to a normal existence is something else and part of that is NOT telling other how to do it. 

There will be a competition for getting materials, fuel, food and the like when this hits.  We saw it during Katrina when they stripped the stores clean, down to taking the racks and display shelves.  And all that stuff is just there... low hanging fruit.  People will become violent to attain stuff, because they are too stupid to be prepared, too stupid to think about getting stuff any other way.  And the one's that know how to harvest the stuff that's not sitting there to just be taken with violence are going to get the stuff they need to survive and exist after the shelves are picked clean. The fewer people that know how to do that, the more stuff will be available for them to get.  And that's only logical. 

 

 

[WRYZ926]

Local repeaters will only be operating on backup power for a few days at most if the power grid goes down long term. The same goes for any type of Internet service too. And you need both for linked repeaters to work.

VHF (2m, 1,25m, and 6m) and UHF (70cm and GMRS) are line of sight and not good for long distant communications. This is where getting your amateur radio license makes sense. You will need a General or Extra class license to operate on any HF band outside of 10m barring any real world emergency. 

[SvenMarbles]

There are actually 0 means of reliable long distance radio comms in a grid down scenario, ham radio included. Key word being "reliable".. Even on HF, you're completely at the mercy of the swirls and variations of ionospheric conditions. When you key up that transmitter on 40 meters, the sky gods either permit it to bounce down 2 states over, or a continent away. It's out of your control.

It's not to say that such radio doesn't have utility in a grid down scenario. But if you have Ideas of picking up the trusty radio to raise "Bob" a state or 2 away as though you were making a phone call, it's not a thing. There IS a scenario perhaps where you laid out a "bread crumb trail" of lora nodes between you and him, you'd have something. But that's going to be a lot of pieces of equipment, opportunities for failure, upkeep, needing to stay charged/powered, staged in opportune and safe places.. It'd be a lot to manage just to maintain that capability..

I'd propose re-thinking your priorities. When it's that bad day, IDK about anyone else but I'm not going to have much use for a guy 2 states away... I'd have much more use for a solid and reliable "bubble" of 30 or so miles radiating from where I am located. If we're talking legit Mad Max, end of days, I'll switch on HF pretty much to monitor it and get information. I do keep a QRP inexpensive HF rig and a 40 meter resonant wire stored away. I'm not licensed, but in dire straits I know I can set that up and call on it..

 

 

[DarkDaze]

On 6/9/2024 at 10:23 AM, SvenMarbles said:

There are actually 0 means of reliable long distance radio comms in a grid down scenario, ham radio included. Key word being "reliable".. Even on HF, you're completely at the mercy of the swirls and variations of ionospheric conditions. When you key up that transmitter on 40 meters, the sky gods either permit it to bounce down 2 states over, or a continent away. It's out of your control.

It's not to say that such radio doesn't have utility in a grid down scenario. But if you have Ideas of picking up the trusty radio to raise "Bob" a state or 2 away as though you were making a phone call, it's not a thing. There IS a scenario perhaps where you laid out a "bread crumb trail" of lora nodes between you and him, you'd have something. But that's going to be a lot of pieces of equipment, opportunities for failure, upkeep, needing to stay charged/powered, staged in opportune and safe places.. It'd be a lot to manage just to maintain that capability..

I'd propose re-thinking your priorities. When it's that bad day, IDK about anyone else but I'm not going to have much use for a guy 2 states away... I'd have much more use for a solid and reliable "bubble" of 30 or so miles radiating from where I am located. If we're talking legit Mad Max, end of days, I'll switch on HF pretty much to monitor it and get information. I do keep a QRP inexpensive HF rig and a 40 meter resonant wire stored away. I'm not licensed, but in dire straits I know I can set that up and call on it..

 

 

Well the plan is for him to get out here if something were here o happen. It wouldn't be a long term thing. Most likely would be within a 48 hour window that we communicate and check in until he gets here. We were also thinking about satalite messengers if we couldn't figure anything out. And to the people saying they wouldn't share any life saving info, I think that it's kinda selfish not to want to help your fellow man in this kind of situation (shtf) . I get that most people aren't prepared at all and will do whatever it takes but chances are those people wouldn't last long anyways against the elements and the people who are prepared. It's not like I'm asking you to give me your location and other specifics. But some tricks and tips on some secrets you have would probably help a lot of people. That's just my opinion. Because if the world goes to shit then I feel that the only way to survive long term is to maintain your moral compass and be the good guy and don't make the decisions that would turn you into the bad guy. There's strength in numbers and you have to decide what your outcome will be. Do you want to just survive until you can't anymore or do you want to help build something for the future? 

[WRWE456]

I think you answered your own question. A sat phone or text messaging device will be about your only option. My sat phone provider says they will not disconnect service for at least 60 days after last payment is received and maybe longer if payment systems are down as that will be out of everyone's control.

[SteveShannon]

It really depends on what is meant by SHTF.

In my opinion if the shit truly has hit the fan, no infrastructure will be available. The billing department will be the least of your worries. 
If infrastructure is still available, shit hasn’t truly hit the fan. 

[WRQC527]

On 6/9/2024 at 6:35 AM, back4more70 said:

If you hold your radio up to a telephone while transmitting, your friend on the other end of the line will hear it 

Lol like Ribbit. Sort of.

[WRQC527]

On 6/8/2024 at 11:24 PM, DarkDaze said:

hello. I'm brand new to GMRS and was wondering if it was possible to program my radio (UV-5R) to talk to my friend from Texas to California? we've been looking into affordable ways to communicate in any type of grid down or SHTF situation that isn't gonna cost us an arm and a leg. TIA! also I'd love to hear any suggestions on how we can communicate in those kinds of situations if yo know any tricks.

**Disclaimer** The following is my humble opinion, and may or may not reflect the opinions of the rest of the folks on this site.

A couple of things. First, GMRS was never intended for reliable long-range communications. From the FCC website:

"The General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) is a licensed radio service that uses channels around 462 MHz and 467 MHz. The most common use of GMRS channels is for short-distance, two-way voice communications using hand-held radios, mobile radios and repeater systems."

That said, some GMRS folks have tried to force GMRS to be a long-range communications tool, with varying degrees of success and questionable legality, using linked repeaters, internet connections, and such.

Second, If you are truly interested in exploiting your Baofeng UV-5R to include long-range comms on the cheap, my suggestion is for you and your friend to get your amateur radio technician licenses. Amateur radio has, shall we say, figured out linked repeaters and other methods of linking radios, literally on a global scale. For examples of this, look up the Winsystem at https://www.winsystem.org/ and Echolink at https://www.echolink.org/, both of which will allow you to talk to others long-range on your UV-5Rs These are but two examples. A word of warning though. Linked systems, GMRS, amateur radio, and others, like any other comms, are not 100% reliable. You won't be able to communicate in every grid-down or SHTF situation. If somewhere between you and your friend in Texas there is a break in the link, such as a repeater going off line or the internet going down, game over. Also, some folks here have mentioned HF as a method of comms. The issue is that there is not much along the lines of decent HF gear that isn't going to cost you an arm and a leg. Interstate contacts on HF are definitely not a sure thing, and far from reliable. It all depends on conditions that change literally by the minute.

[BoxCar]

Amen @WRCQ527! Well said and directly on topic.

[nokones]

During those situations, you'll have more important things to worry about than trying to communicate with someone several states away. Why would your communication contact with someone several states be more important than an immediate local public safety needs? Stay off the airwaves unless you need to report or seek emergencies services if a person's life is in peril. Don't think about your selfish self, think of others that may have a more dire need.

[WRWE456]

15 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

It really depends on what is meant by SHTF.

In my opinion if the shit truly has hit the fan, no infrastructure will be available. The billing department will be the least of your worries. 
If infrastructure is still available, shit hasn’t truly hit the fan. 

I was attempting to answer the OP's question. In the short term (he mentioned a 48 hr window) Sat phones would be the most likely to be working. That is what they are used for normally, when there are no other means available they work almost everywhere.

But you are right in saying "It really depends on what is meant by SHTF". The situation will be different depending on if it is a local event or regional, national or world wide.

[SteveShannon]

35 minutes ago, WRWE456 said:

Sat phones would be the most likely to be working.

I disagree. In any serious military action, satellite communications would probably be targeted very early like most infrastructure. They’re one of the most vulnerable assets because they can be taken out either physically (an orbital EMP, directed energy weapon, or simply a missile) or virtually by hacking.  I suspect the routines to do the latter are loaded and ready to be used. 
Military satellites would be more protected of course.

[WRYZ926]

12 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

I disagree. In any serious military action, satellite communications would probably be targeted very early like most infrastructure. They’re one of the most vulnerable assets because they can be taken out either physically (an orbital EMP, directed energy weapon, or simply a missile) or virtually by hacking.  I suspect the routines to do the latter are loaded and ready to be used. 
Military satellites would be more protected of course.

This is very true. These types of attacks were part of our training when I was in the Army.

On topic, getting your amateur license (general or extra) will serve a person better for long distance communications as long as conditions are good. VHF and UHF are for short distances with good line of sight.

[WRWE456]

Again it depends on the nature of the SHTF situation. Is it a hurricane or WW3?