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My feeling is that the GMRS band is FIRST AND FOREMOST… for individuals and their families for those kinds of activities. It is not, again, in my opinion, for “primary emergency use.” Having said that, (some) groups are formed, or otherwise exist, for the purpose of some sort of an (community or area wide) emergency response. The problem is… the logistics involved with reliable point-to-point, mobile and/or hand-held communications is simply way too much for [some “rag-tag” bunch of fireman want-a-bees] an organization, both administratively and cost, to acquire, install and manage. Therefore, rather than do it correctly (by setting up a “local government affiliated emergency response organization” that can access “official emergency comms”, groups form and jump on GMRS and over-run it in the process. Not trying to bash anyone here… just attempting to point out that… before even getting to the issue of ‘comms requirements’ in those organizations, the purpose and/or point of and/or function, of the organization might outta be looked at first. Bottom line is… GMRS is not, and was not… set up to be an emergency services band. Now, how much trouble do you think I got myself into by saying this????

I had this exact same questions / thoughts…. But, I also like being a cheap-skate too. Thought I’d try out the Anytone AT-779. Ordered it as a GMRS radio (but it was marked for ham 2M & 70cm when it arrived) and had to “fix” it. There is a good YouTube video on how to get to the “boot up” menu in that radio. Got a cheap CB as well. It’s all a “1-Bolt” installation to the front left passenger seat mounting bolt using a single piece of flat steel stock, bent at 90 degrees in two places and twisted so the radios face the driver. On the antenna… the near antenna (in the pic) is the generic VHF/UHF antenna that I spent a little time tweaking to an acceptable VSWR across the frequencies I have been messing around on. yea…yea…I know…CB…??? but it works! …and works well when I want / need it.?. Ain’t no sad ham here!! Can’t disappoint Randy!!

So what do you carry when you’re simply Joe Schmoe going for a walk in the woods? Most people have nothing other than a cell phone. A GMRS radio or ham radio is a step up. People who go out in the back country professionally carry PLBs, but very few recreational hikers do. It’s better for people to carry a GMRS radio that they know how to use than to leave it at home because someone on the internet said “I would never trust a GMRS system with my life.” I agree with you on this: if I knew I was going to be going into a situation that required reliable communications, I wouldn’t choose GMRS as my first or even second choice. I’d insist on a PLB and probably a satellite phone. But we should be encouraging recreational hikers to carry some kind of communications gear and we should be advising them so they can make informed decisions.

Some of the stuff I hear on CB these days makes me wonder how the guys figure out how to put the keys in the ignition switch. Maybe they have keyless fobs and push button starting on their trucks.

Looking at your first link referenced item…. All the military comm gear I’ve ever used, repaired, deployed with, etc. was all quite wide with respect to it’s operational spectrum capabilities. Both fixed site and tactical stuff…. Even the ‘fixed frequency’ stuff such as Air Traffic Control equipment could be easily re-tuned (involved procedures) to any frequency in a band that is quite wide when compared to GMRS and/or ham bands. As for the main topic question, I’d like to say NO!! No government agency, at any level of government, has a “need” for it. Their needs can be met through other methods (other nets / frequencies). In any and/or all instances to which someone knows of an agency that is doing such; I simply suggest that would be an agency staffed with personnel that lack the knowledge and understanding required to establish their required or necessary wireless communications capabilities… or… they are looking for a “quick fix” short-cut to an “aggravating problem” of some kind. Look, I’ve been there, done that, and wore the t-shirt. In my day using military equipment, I could step on just about any frequency I needed to in order to get the mission done. BUT!!! AIN’T NO WAY I WOULD HAVE EVER DONE THAT!!!!…because my capabilities were sufficiently robust such that there wasn’t (never would be) a ‘real need’ to do such a thing. But, in the world of ‘local governments’ there just happens to be people that don’t know, or understand, such stuff as radio frequency communications systems and the various resources that are allocated to people, groups, organizations, businesses, governments, etc. or how to make effective use thereof. So, wether they know it or not, there are separate sandboxes for those folks to play in. GMRS ain’t it.? Hope I didn’t hurt anyone's feeling here by shooting off my pie hole…??

From what I searched, the 4500 is NMO base which is what you want for mobile antenna mounts The 4503 is N female which is usually used for base/fixed locations 73

*twitch*

Remember to take the offset out if you are in the DIY channels and putting in frequencies for simplex not repeater. Good luck.

WRUU, interesting I'll try doing just that using the software this evening and see what happens. Maybe it's an issue with trying to program on the radio. Edit: thanks!

Regardless of "club" or "group" -- the repeater operates under one individual license, and that licensee must manage use of the repeater. The funds to maintain the repeater can come from "club" members (are you making this a private repeater, or will it be open to the public during non-emergency periods? You might fall under both (3)(i) and (3)(ii) -- somehow). Note that your government entity does not qualify as a "participant" ("other persons eligible in the GMRS" -- the government entity is not eligible for a GMRS license -- and if they had a grandfathered license, it can not be modified for new frequencies). The government entity could provide a site (maybe for a nominal lease), could install a tower for antennas (especially if it has some LMR license and want to relocate their dispatch/repeater equipment), maybe a pair of shacks (one for their equipment, one for the GMRS repeater gear), have power run to the shacks (likely with independent meters so they can bill the GMRS group for power used by the repeater). They could set up a small EOC with a GMRS radio -- but that radio would only be usable by licensed individuals, not general staff. Then there is the negotiations on /how/ the equipment will be used in an emergency (net control, chain of command for moving traffic, etc.) with concomitant training of the participants in procedures.

Hah, your right. I just saw that. Duh! Thank you

In a true emergency situation any form of communication is better than none at all. So, even though I wouldn’t make GMRS my plan A, B, or possibly even C, I would make sure that I have several GMRS and probably even FRS radios available as backups. But I wouldn’t wait for everything else to fail before teaching my kids and grandkids to use them.

I totally understand the specific language used by the FCC. I tend to want to zoom-in on the, “…voluntary provision of assistance to the public during…”. It’s that ‘provision’-ing thing that tells me, … …“hey dude, don’t make this your primary means for reliance on emergency communications…but, if crap hits the fan and it winds-up being the only method available that isn’t otherwise knocked-out for whatever reason… then, by all means, use it for your/the emergency at hand.”… Now, as an old retired dude that has had a career in communications-electronics and all of it’s associated complicated electrical do-dad stuff, they HAIN’T NOT NO WAY (??) I’d pick a band or frequency for even back-up emergency comms that would / could possibly be busy with a bunch of young-ens playing on a bunch of walkie-talkies. Remember, it’s them kids’ pappy that has the GMRS license and he didn’t activate that ‘busy channel lockout’ feature on the dozen or so walkie-talkies he has for them to play with while they are visiting him and playing on the dirt bikes and four-wheelers all over his 100 or so acres… At least, that’s the way I put it when someone suggest (planning on) using GMRS for anything even remotely associated with an emergency. It’s the “planning” thing, see… To make GMRS a component of your “plan” (if / when formulating any kind of emergency response) is the mistake. But, in the event that ALL OTHER planned methods failed first, then, and only then, should someone in an emergency response role consider GMRS. Now, that’s my [(retired) comms professional] interpretation of that language used by the FCC. Does that get me into any trouble with any of y’all.???

Since the conversation is titled "Need a antenna for my repeater" I'm guessing you're looking for a Repeater Antenna?.... I know, a lucky guess... I have been using a Comet CA-712EFC at just 20 feet above the ground for over a year now and have had phenominal results. The antenna link was the cheapest I quickly found, most places are out of stock but there are a few that have them in stock but at a slightly higher price.

It's the radio itself I was interested in because it's a superheterodyne radio. The added channels don't bother me. I was going to get the pro version as it was available but decided to get the best at this time, I believe. The KG935G from what I've read and seen videos on is a darn good choice as well.

Hello, It sounds like you are likely not on the same frequency and or with an offset that is pre set. The DIY channels are all set up for repeater frequencies (channels 15-22 on your radio) the offset is already set as well. How are you setting up your programs? Are you doing this on the radio or in Chirp? I find it easiest to do these changes in chirp. You can change these programs to match what you want for your your sons 462.5625 in chirp. I hope this helps.

IN to the repeater and OUT of the repeater. The INPUT PL Code is the CTCSS tone that you must transmit from your handheld using the INPUT frequency. Your transmission goes IN to the repeater. The OUTPUT frequency is the frequency the REPEATER transmits on. That must be the frequency you receive on, so its your RX frequency. The OUTPUT tone is the tone the repeater transmits. If you leave the tone blank you will receive all transmissions on the output frequency. I recommend starting that way then programming in the Output tone once you’re sure everything else is working.

Not a bit of trouble, at least with me. I agree with you.

Steve, thank you for your explanation. Mark, thanks very much for the link -- I will check that out. KAF6045 in Lowell -- I used in to live in GR. ? Thanks for the advice on configuring the port (good old Device Mangler) and advice for testing. Such a friendly forum! Thanks, all!

Correct, only individuals may obtains new GMRS licenses. Before July 31, 1987, other types of GMRS licenses were available for other entities,such as corporations and government entities. Some of those licenses are still active (Grandfathered), but no new licenses are being issued for such entities. Only individuals can now be newly licensed, but those grandfathered licenses can still be renewed: Grandfathered GMRS license. A GMRS license held by a non-individual person (i.e.,a partnership, corporation, association or governmental unit) as a result of renewals of a GMRS license issued prior to July 31, 1987. And it’s worth understanding that the station, the actual physical hardware used to transmit and receive, is not licensed. There are no restrictions on who (or what entities) may buy the hardware, but there are distinct restrictions on who may operate a Station. From https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/section-95.1705 A valid individual license is required to operate a GMRS station. To obtain an individual license, an applicant must be eligible and follow the applicable rules and procedures set forth in this subpart and in part 1 of this chapter, and must pay the required application and regulatory fees as set forth in part 1, subpart G of this chapter. (a)Eligibility.This paragraph contains eligibility requirements for individual licenses in the GMRS. (1)Only an individual who is at least 18 years old and who meets the requirements of § 95.305 is eligible to obtain a new individual GMRS license. (2)Any person that holds a valid individual license is eligible to obtain a renewed license, or a modified license to reflect a change of name or address.

In my area 520 is quiet, but far from dead. I hear a few calls a month of people passing thru and a couple of regulars in one certain area about once a month. Not sure why those regular guys use 520 for their ongoing rag chews. If it were me, I'd bump over to some other simplex frequency. Maybe they don't know how.

I once spoke to a Malibu resident on the Topanga GMRS repeater and he told me that the City of Malibu was funding the manufacture of DB20-G GoBox's with an enclosed rechargeable battery for distribution to citizens in particularly sensitive areas of the City that are at risk for fire and flood/mud dangers. I wish I had written down his callsign, because the whole concept sounds fascinating and I have never been able to get any followup on this project, including much use of Google on the City's website. The VNC575 Topanga Repeater is, as to be expected, privately held.

They need to take that menu option out, along with the shift direction. Since your HT is part 95E compliant, the GMRS 5.0000 offset is burned into the radio. You don't need to do anything with that. Those menu options are left overs from the Ham radio side.

I have a few radios using similar programming software, and the port selection dialog comes up greyed out for them. I had to use the Windows Device Manager to locate the COM device in question, and then manually change the Windows assigned port # to match the one the programming software defaulted to. As a result, I have something like two or three different adapter cables for the radios all assigned to COM 1 -- meaning only one cable at a time can be connected to the computer. Tones do nothing to prevent transmission... But mismatched tones can prevent /reception/! Tones are used to open the squelch on the receiving device. However, if the transmitter is set for repeater, the receiver will not hear it -- they are on frequencies 5MHz apart. Both devices need to be set for simplex -- try channels 1-7 in the unified channel listing as they are simplex only with a 5W ERP limit (you may also want to ensure both radios are set to the same bandwidth; wide FM, not NFM).

you can't change or set an offset on FRS channels and the repeater channels are fixed at +5 MHz.

The Windows driver for the USB programming cable/cables is probably not loaded or incorrect. See https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2021/06/how-to-install-the-wouxun-programming-cable-and-driver.html

I suspect the KG1000 is transmitting just fine but either the 905g is being swamped by the power (de-sensing) or that the 905G is listening on a different frequency and/or using a different tone. I suggest you clear out all receive tones first and make sure xmit and receive are all on the same frequency.

I've also done the commercial looking, and the cost between APX 8500 and a NX-5K dual deck remote head is about 2:1 Moto vs. Kenwood. @PACNWComms you are probably thinking of the crypto modules which must be sent back for labor + $600 for the board, otherwise, P25 can be added at the programming level for $575 (conv) + $520 (PH1 Trunk) + $400 (Ph2 Trunk), using just the same program that activates D1N. I will admit, the Kenwood D#N softwares are frustrating at times, but not any more frustrating than Mototrbo 2.0 CPS. There are plusses and minuses to both, but I have and use both depending on the situation. I've also started side-eyeing a few other brands that offer multi-band radios, but its harder and harder to look at them since I now have all the M & K legitimate tools/programs already, others are not as easy to track down and obtain. The long and the short of an answer to the OP in this thread: for a new or casual GMRS user, there isn't an excellent option that is cost-effective to recommend. If you really deep pockets and didn't care, there are options you could look into. But for most, you are probably best to run either two radios (VHF and UHF) and find a way to make them fit.

If you can get a dealer to give you ham friendly pricing. The kenwood for mixed amateur/gmrs usage works for a decent price. Then make sure to get what you want. Unfortunately, you aren't going to get ham friendly pricing from motorola. I perfer motorola and so does a good friend, whom sells, programs and modifies commercial gear. It is definitely a bit outside the gmrs forum aspect. But anyone like the op looking for a vhf rig capable of gmrs. Me included. Is in a bind. Act crappy ccr radios that can be unlocked, cap mod a ham rig or mod (using nod loosely here) commercial gear. Commercial gear kinda sucks because being able to tone select and fpp. Really is only an option on gear produced in the past 10-15 years. I was looking at a dual rig xtl5000. Just decided it would be better to wait till an APX 8K series was more affordable. For now cdm1250 and ftm400 will do. Btw. At home I am running an Anytone 779 which is the same radio( little cheaper) as the Radioddity db20g, upstairs for the wife (gmrs). Unlocked for ham vhf/uhf use in case. In the shack it's a cdm1250 and ft991a. Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

One of the greatest attributes of this Forum is that new GMRS licensees can come here and easily obtain a fount of valuable information on all sorts of useful GMRS subtopics. Now to them, this is the first time such a question is being asked and it is a feature not a bug, that these questions are answered over and over again and updated, if necessary, each time. Using the "Search" function does not always work well and is it sure not as easy as just asking the question. If you find it disconcerting to answer the same question over and over again, here is any easy trick: Don't reply and move on to the next topic! Let those of us who want to help cut through the crap and answer the question.

I agree for the most part, but I think it’s worth also pointing out that with only eight main 462 channels shared by repeater and simplex users neither repeater owners nor simplex users have the right to expect exclusive use of the channels. A person doesn’t have the right to use someone else’s repeater without permission, but they do have the right to use the same 462 MHz frequencies. Otherwise eight “access for pay” repeaters could completely control access for all of the main channels.

FFS, are you still arguing over this? 4 pages of trying to prove who's smarter over something that the FCC (based on their history of action) doesn't even care about? ..."some people" .... Need to go outside more often... Just sayin...

3 pages of arguing over a control station, fixed station....yet we help guys use non certified radios for use......im baffled...

JB-weld a mag mount to the top of the vehicle

Wow, three of y'all new folks with new KG935g's, IP66 rated radios. You make this "newbie to this forum" blush with my two little $40 Radioddity GM-30s, which are not IP66 rated and melt like the wicked-witch-of-the-west in rain. Those are great radios (according the Youtube Reviews I've listened to); hope you enjoy 'em!

Because Trump will need a project at his low-security incarceration.

I think with todays technology most anyone with the desire could get a label printed up (or sticker) with a callsign and attach it inside the back window.

Bullshit. That’s a cheap shot that paints all of us with the same brush. Yes, there are those that simply memorize enough to pass the Technicians test, but they don’t hang around long. There are still many who work within clubs to help provide backup long distance communications. There are hams helping out during every tornado, flood, and hurricane.

Because many years ago, when technology wasn't what it is now, Amateur radio was a vital part of communications when things went south. Having an Amateur Radio license indicated that you had worked hard and studied electronic theory, laws and regulations and were somewhat proficient in communicating with Morse Code. The real question is why are they STILL a thing. Because having a Ham license now means you bought a book with all the answers to the questions, read it for 3 hours and took a test so you could get on the air with your 30 dollar radio that makes all sorts of beeps and crap and irritate the guys that did it right back in the day. Just sayin.

Point well taken. Before going off the rails assuming illegal operation one might have stumbled on a perfectly legal grandfathered system. If it bothers somebody do some research before jumping to conclusions. Even in the Ham world we have to be careful since Hams only have secondary status on the 70cm band, we share it with the primary user, government. I remember doing a frequency search a while back and stumbled across some public safety frequencies between 420 MHz and 430 MHz. The US Ham band officially runs from 420 MHz to 450 MHz depending on how close you are to Canada, Line-A. The 70cm band is a mine field of various users, technical requirements and restrictions. https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/compendium/0420.00-0450.00_01MAR14.pdf https://www.chp.ca.gov/find-an-office/central-division/offices/(420)-bakersfield https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf00049.html