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Early January 2022 here in Alaska we had a horrible winter storm that knocked out power to thousands as well as cell service to some, I lost heat, power, and cell service in my area for 3 days and I was completely unprepared. I have four children my youngest was 10 months old at the time. After that happened I promised myself I will never let that happen again. I then stared going down the "prepper" road and doing research on the subject. This is when I first learned about GMRS. When I Youtubed GMRS the first video to pop up was NOTARUBICON and his videos on GMRS. I took it all in and began taking the steps to get my license. I then watched a video with him and Josh at HAM RADIO CRASH COURSE talking about GMRS and Amateur radio. Then I found Jason at HAMRADIO 2.0 along with this website and ARRL and Radio Reference etc. The biggest thing that drew me into Randy, Josh, and Jason was that I could identify with all three in them as far as age, family/young children, similar interest, and their ability to explain everything rather simply and with some comedic relief. I have now since received my tech license (KL5LD) and I give full credit to Josh and Jason because their YouTube channels and the information they provided helped me tremendously in passing my test as well as taking a class with Bob Phinney over at New England Sci-Tech, Thanks again Bob (K5TEC)! I now have both GMRS and amateur radios that I use everyday, and I enjoy using both. With family it is mostly GMRS, while my kids are studying for their tech license and I for my general and with ham it is mostly for the entertainment of listening to all the old timers gripe at each other over ALLSTAR LINK on the the east coast repeater, it is quite hilarious to me personally (I'm just kidding guys), but there are also some really solid guys out here in Alaska that I have met over ham and they have been extremely kind and helpful in so many ways I couldn't even begin to list them. Heck, just a couple weeks ago my family and I got invited to a local clubs pot luck and gift exchange for Christmas when I was trying to find info during another horrible winter storm we just had before Christmas(It was pretty bad)! Yet, when I have talked to people over GMRS it is pretty straight forward, kinda like having a conversation with somebody in person. I'm going to be honest and say that I have been meeting more and more people in my area that have GMRS radios and they just use them. No license, no call signs, no codes or other things of that sort. It is just people out and about enjoying the great outdoors and using their radios as a means to communicate because there are many areas within our state where there is very shotty cell reception if at all and using these radios are literally life savers for people. This past September I went Moose hunting with my son and we ran across a bunch of guys using GMRS radios and when talking with them I would bring up the whole license issue and they all just laughed at me as if that was actually a thing. I guess up here in Alaska a lot of people just have a different mentality about how they utilize this tool. Everybody gets along great with no issues that I have ever heard of and it seems to be a growing "hobby" for us up here with new repeaters popping up, which is great! Sorry for the long winded comment, but with all that being said I guess it is different in each region and how people are using GMRS and ham. Down in the states you guys seem to be using it for, well, the reasons you have stated, but up here in Alaska, in what I have seen and experienced, we are not using it as simply a "hobby" (this is not to say you guys are "just" using it for the same reason) to meet new friends, I feel it is much more than that, it is literally a life line. It is a way for us to stay connected to each other during our rough winters when the power goes out and its -20 outside, it is a way to communicate while out in the bush chasing down a 1,200 lbs moose to fill our freezers for the year, it is a way to tell the guy further down the river to get ready, the salmon are coming, it is a way to tell our family and friends to watch for that bear out in the tree line with her cubs while out picking blueberries, from what I have seen up here in the Great North it is much much more. And who am I to tell anybody how to use their radios? I'm just another voice over the waves. To each their own. Be safe and respectful, have fun, and watch your six.

I didn’t make it very clearly. My point is that 90% of the GMRS users with whom I’m personally acquainted use it simply as a communications medium when they’re many miles away from civilization. They don’t know about or care about repeaters; they’re using simplex in the 462 MHz frequencies. They use it because cell phones don’t work where they’re recreating. For them it’s not a hobby or a vocation. It’s simply a tool that enhances, and in some ways enables, the enjoyment of their hobbies. For most of them the Garmin Rino is the only GMRS radio they’ve ever owned. They chose GMRS strictly because of the ability to see where the others are and to mark locations to share with each other. I cannot disagree with you about why we should be licensed, but the fact is that most outdoor recreational GMRS users never will unless they get deeper into it like those of us on this forum. We on this forum are not an example of the average outdoor recreation user of GMRS and probably never will be.

Even though this is the first post I’ve read today, I’m unable to “react” with a like emoji, so I want to say this is an absolutely excellent post! As far as licensing goes, that’s how it is here in Montana as well. I’m literally the first person I’ve met in Montana with a license. I requested an FRN many years ago (pre 2005 I think because it was before my job change) for the purpose of obtaining a GMRS license, but then the FCC said they were going to request to make GMRS licenses free. So, I thought I’d wait. I and everyone I know who owns GMRS radios have been using them ever since without licensing, until I decided to get legitimate in 2021. None of the people I speak to using my GMRS radio have a license and most of them couldn’t even describe the licensing process. Our usage of GMRS radios happens entirely at our monthly rocket launches so we can keep in touch if we need to. We don’t have conversations on the radio. We have conversations while we’re sitting together, but when we’re recovering a rocket the radios allow us to check on each other, or to offer suggestions “I think it was more east than that!” Most of us went to an outdoor sporting goods store and bought a Garmin Rino for the mapping ability. When we’re walking around in the hills looking for our own rocket we appear on each other’s maps screens, at least the last known location. We may only speak on the radio for a few seconds once a month, but those few seconds are important to recovering rockets that might be worth thousands of dollars. Having radios also allows us to react in case one of us has a medical emergency. Many of us are in our fifties, sixties, or seventies (some are even older) and hiking up and down rock strewn hills stresses the human body. Plus, it’s easy to get turned around on an overcast day. We don’t use networks or repeaters and we never ever hear anyone else on the channel we’ve agreed upon. I have toyed with the idea of setting up a portable repeater on one of our hills to keep in better touch, but that will result in losing our ability to see each other on our maps. I still have only physically met one other GMRS licensee, other than on this forum. But I know a lot of unlicensed people who use GMRS for purpose driven communications just like I did. They don’t know or care about the regulations and they’re not hurting anyone. They’ve never even heard the word “interstitial” before.

There is an easy way to fix this: Turn the knob to a different channel.

Because they were written by bureaucrat lawyers, not 'normal' people. LOL

You could try dropping the tones, maybe they aren’t up to date and are keeping you from hearing transmissions. As Sshannon said you don’t need them. I never bother with them on scanning frequencies.

Much more of an answer. So from what I understand and has already been said, repeaters can only emit 462.xxx range. Thank you! Not a repeater owner anyway. Just curious about how things work and why they're done the way they are.

Okay I got to jump in here as I just tried to give a “like” on another thread after leaving a thanks here for Steve and nope! Ionically I’m over my limit for the day!

Well in the LMR world we find the needs of the client, then run propagation studies to meet the expectations of the customer and meet the license requirements. In the past I did many warehouses that had a 10 watt UHF repeater in them with hundreds of 4 watt portables. I have also put in multiple GMRS/SAR/Public Safety systems that covered many miles and counties. All designed and engineered before install. In the hobby world I try to do what I can and learn from mistakes of others. Spending a bit more money on a decent antenna normally is worth its weight in gold. Wind, Snow, Ice change the antenna some will use. Since moving south I dont worry so much about ice load on my antenna, but wind is still there. Also what can the structure handle for weight and loads. Wind loading is a thing. The Laird antenna is a great starter antenna. I use them for control stations, low power repeaters and temporary installs. The DB404 is a bullet proof antenna but weighs twice the Laird. But I have DB antennas on towers for 20+ years with no issues. Can't say that about my Lairds.

I heard similar while passing through some rural Virginia mountains. Just below the interstate was a small town in a valley, and the radio started picking up neighbors just chatting and saying hi to each other. As you say, a great way to stay in touch during the dark days of winter. The linked net repeaters are very big on call signs and such, which doesn't really get in the way. Sounds like a certain number of regional friends hanging out all the time. The net might get 100+ check-ins. The unlinked local repeaters are local friends, maybe 10 check-ins when they do their own net. Same people all the time, but a lot of newcomers as well. At least in the midwest, GMRS seems like friendly-ish CB.

Every repeater in a given state, for now. Later on I will add a zip code radius search so you can narrow it down further.

Today I’m unable to give any posts a like or a thanks. I see a message saying that I cannot add any more reactions today, but I haven’t added any today, at least in my time zone. So I am curious. How many reactions am I allowed daily? How does that quota work, is it a sliding 24 hour window, a finite limit per calendar day, or what? When does it reset? Do premium members have a higher limit or possibly even no limit? Why is there a limit? Thanks! Steve

So a question I have is that I requested permission to use repeaters and they were approved but the owners didn't message me the unlisted PL TONES. Do I have to somehow message them and beg for the tones? I would have assumed that in the response message field they would have maybe responded with something instead of just an approval. What's the typical process of getting tones on an unlisted non subscription repeater? Thanks.

So years ago I bought a cheap Walmart FRS Radio (Ozark Trail OZA19LT001) that talks between channels 1 (462.562) and 22 (462.725), and I forgot all about it for I only used it a couple times while camping and hiking. So I pulled it back out about a week ago and played with it so I could figure out what tones equaled what Hz (tone 1=67 hz, tone 2=100hz, it has "127 tones" or something similar. They're all over the place and hard to calculate exactly which one.) While doing so I found that almost all GMRS repeaters were still being picked up by my cheap 20 dollar for 2 pack radio, even though it has a hard time communicating with each other (figures it would suck at transmitting and be okay at receiving). So I hit scan. This thing scans incredibly fast. So i set it to no tones and pick up everything it heard. So I had my HT set to the channels I generally use (16/575 and 20/675) and my cheap one listening for other frequencies. This way I could use FRS channels I picked up while also having the option to pick up GMRS 15/550 - 22/725. Obviously not the fastest way to scan. I'm sure there's plenty a million times faster. But to go from 1/562 - 22/725 in only about 2 seconds, it scans at a decent pace im not upset about. Anyone else have jury rigged ways of picking up frequencies while not disturbing their HT/Mobile?

I hear garbage all the time, amazing how one or two clicks on the channel and the problems are gone.

Interesting. Do you hear more on the iPhone app than you do on your old scanner, or the same? If you hear more on the app, that probably lmeans that SIRN is in use and whoever is providing the feed has a scanner monitoring that system. (Keep in mind that's how those apps work ... somewhere there is someone with a real scanner that is monitoring the traffic and streams it to the Internet.) If you can pick up those frequencies on your scanner but not the new radio that suggests a programming problem.

Here’s the regulations regarding frequencies. Note that repeaters are only permitted to transmit in the “a) 462 MHz Main Channels”: a) 462 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, repeater, base and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 462.5500, 462.5750, 462.6000, 462.6250, 462.6500, 462.6750, 462.7000, and 462.7250 MHz. (b) 462 MHz interstitial channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable and base stations may transmit on these 7 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 462.5625, 462.5875, 462.6125, 462.6375, 462.6625, 462.6875, and 462.7125 MHz. (c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with § 95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz. (d) 467 MHz interstitial channels. Only hand-held portable units may transmit on these 7 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 467.5625, 467.5875, 467.6125, 467.6375, 467.6625, 467.6875, and 467.7125 MHz.

BINGO! Now you're getting it. There is this great movie my kids love it is called Frozen, and in that movie is a wonderful song called "Let it go". Go watch it you will love it.

I’m not arguing against your logic or your ideals. I’m just pointing out the reality of the situation. Most people don’t get licensed for GMRS and for the most part their activities don’t affect those who do.

Now you’ve got it. Most people do ignore the license requirement and GMRS accountability is a myth that even the FCC disregards the unless someone does something really bad.

It would be great if they said so specifically in plain language. It would open up a lot of otherwise used very serviceable equipment.

Maybe I did.

You kind of missed the whole point…

Yeah, maybe it’s broken today. I don’t think you or I are troublemakers who deserve repression! ?

For the ones I've done, the tones were given to me in an email. Nothing changed on the mygmrs repeater listing (tones still not shown). Maybe the repeater owner you requested approval from doesn't know he has to send that to you.

Ive wondered the same over the years. Hopefully Rich can clarify.

Yes. And there are still some in Bay Area proper too, on low power. Sunol Ridge repeater W6SRR is actually heard well across the bay and in the Livermore-Amador valley, but it is quiet. Their 2m machine is very much active, 70cm is not so. Some years ago I used it to chat with my friends from Fremont and Livermore. It felt like a private intercom, no one ever joined. WW6BAY linked repeaters (BAY NET) are fairly active, but it's because their 70cm is liked to their 2m.

More like a tower Kama Sutra, with all the tiny details, positions, techniques and illustrations.

Just an update that Premium Members can now export a CSV file compatible with CHIRP from the myGMRS Reports page: https://mygmrs.com/reports Note that there was a bug in CHIRP that prevented cross-tone DCS codes from importing properly, but this has been fixed with today's latest update of CHIRP-next.

I should have included that. It’s usually the first reference I cite. It can be overwhelming, but it is an authoritative source.

Exactly- you don’t (and shouldn’t) need a bunch of radio theory to use GMRS, but you have agreed to follow the rules (cryptically written though they may be) so a licensee needs to know and understand them.

I would say that user knowledge is required from a standpoint of how much power can be used on various frequencies, antenna height, identifying by call sign, usage rules (business vs personal, etc), who is covered by a license, etc. Not that everyone goes by all the rules, but by having a GMRS license, you have entered into an agreement with the FCC that you at least know the rules.

Just like everything else they do. Have to keep the starving lawyers employed.

 So perhaps we can all agree that hams and CB’ers are looking at GMRS so they have someone to talk to, and in particular, because they can utilize repeaters to accomplish that goal. The repeater is the primary attraction in this movement towards GMRS. So, with trying to stay on topic to the OP’s original question, I suggest that amateur radio is missing the mark, by not providing the experience for many people who are, or would be, active on radio, where GMRS is providing a resource for these people, but it is my belief that GMRS is not the appropriate venue for this particular activity, due to it’s very limited bandwidth and shared FRS activity. GMRS should be short distance, brief messages that convey information that is of interest to a family or immediate group of licensed people. Amateur radio is for longer distance conversations that include people not related to one another, who enjoy participating in long-winded ragchews. I know the dozens of amateur repeaters in my region sit idle for days/weeks. Unused bandwidth on 2m and 70cm, and from your comments, it is true in your region as well. While the 8 repeater channels available are being used by CBer’s and ex-patriot hams. It is just ridiculous for amateur radio to continue to hold onto old conventions that are literally causing it to lose participants, when we can clearly see the activity interest in GMRS increase, as ham radio interest decreases. And again, it is primarily related to repeater access on GMRS, so here is the simple solution… 1) Eliminate the testing requirement for an entry level amateur radio license. 2) Establish a license class that authorizes use of 2m and 70cm FM simplex and repeater access available for the price of admission ($35). 3) Allow up to 50 watts of transmitter output power (HT and mobile radio operation). This is basically the same as GMRS (with the exception of the VHF access), and if GMRS does not require a license holder to demonstrate any knowledge of operation, than neither should amateur radio, for the same basic operating privileges. Beyond the requirement to identify your station every 10 minutes on the amateur bands, I don’t think there is anything else that a user of 2m or 70cm would need to know, relating to Part 97. Should one want to further their involvement in amateur radio, then the usual process of testing can be followed, to permit the use of higher transmitter power, additional bands and modes of operation. But for amateur radio to try to have a gatekeeper in place for access to some VHF and UHF spectrum, in the form of a 35 question test, is archaic and useless at this point. And it is only destroying the General Mobile Radio Service in the process. And for the hams that would scream that this idea would destroy amateur radio…as a GMRS user, I am trying to save GMRS from the very situation you have created, so if you think my suggestion is wrong…then GFY. This is exactly what needs to happen, in order to save both amateur radio and GMRS.

One other idea that comes to mind is what channels this is occurring on. The usual 15-22 (462.575 through .725) are shared between simplex and repeater outputs. One easy reason to be able to hear them at that distance is if you're hearing them via a repeater. To talk back to them through the repeater, you'd need to use a channel set with the appropriate offset and tone for that repeater.

Thank you @gortex2 for raising the question. The dialog can be healthy. I think @labreja accurately describes the major reason why. What HAM was and what it has become are two different things. The way NotaRubicon for example, responds to them on his very popular channel is telling. Today, HAM represents itself to the public as an exclusive club of what behind the scenes (not everywhere) is in all actuality an archaic system of dated and unhelpful rules. This means that the people on those repeaters and frequencies are potentially unwelcome to newcomers that don't share their biases and beliefs. The general public feels this way. That is a problem whether it is true or not. GMRS is the polar opposite. It is welcoming, friendly, and encourages the free discourse of discussion over a really cool medium (aka radio) without having made everyone learn a bunch of totally irrelevant ideology just to use a frequency and talk on it. However, not every HAM is that way, of course. We need licensing over frequencies, not radios types, not how many radios you have in your truck, not how much money you have, not how big a bully you are, not how much of a school hall monitor nazi you are. Like real sensible reasons for why we do things. Its just so totally crazy what drives the HAM market ecosystem. However, I'm somewhat saddened to see GMRS become like HAM. We would all be better served if GMRS was for "groups" and HAM was for experimentation and the like. This means sharing of frequencies between the two. The only reason I have a HAM ticket was to gain access to the frequencies, not to become an enforcer of peevishness.

One of the greatest attributes of this Forum is that new GMRS licensees can come here and easily obtain a fount of valuable information on all sorts of useful GMRS subtopics. Now to them, this is the first time such a question is being asked and it is a feature not a bug, that these questions are answered over and over again and updated, if necessary, each time. Using the "Search" function does not always work well and is it sure not as easy as just asking the question. If you find it disconcerting to answer the same question over and over again, here is any easy trick: Don't reply and move on to the next topic! Let those of us who want to help cut through the crap and answer the question.

Why would you assume the FCC knows about it. The FCC has less than 40 fried agents nationwide! They dont listen to GMRS.

Like any of the bad guys care. JG

Hmm.. just to be a contrarian, I will posit that the whole appeal of FRS/GMRS is its simplicity and "open the box and get started" ease of use. Thus, having designated channel numbers helps the vast majority of FRS/GMRS users. I'll bet that if you polled 1,000 frequent users of FRS/GMRS radios what frequency their favorite channel was on, 950 of them wouldn't have a clue. The other 50 are participating in this forum. ?

Very happy with mine. Noticable performance improvement over my Jpole and Ed Fong.

And where I am, you would not need P25 to keep it quiet. You just put it on air and it will stay quiet all by itself! In some areas 70cm mountain-top repeaters are shuttered by missile defense, the PAVE PAWS radars. This is the case in SF Bay Area, 70cm repeaters went quiet about 15 years ago. Not so in LA area, where are plenty of active 70cm repeaters.