gortex2

For me like with my CB when traveling I set my mobile unit on scan as it then scans all frequencies. If we are in the woods with our Jeeps I still prefer the scan set  up because if someone wants to talk to me and they key up I will hear them and be able to respond. This system on the CB has helped me avoid long freeway delays dur to accidents etc.!! I am sure the same will happen with my usage of GMRS with CB on trips.

If your going for 100' Id probably move to the LDF and not the FSJ.

Well, my recommendation goes to a 2nd hand (used, but not abused) Motorola XPR4550 mobile. These XPR4550 are very nice, and they can be found in decent condition for around 100-150 bucks on the bay, cable can be had for 20 bucks, and the legacy CPS can be purchased on eBay as well. These mobiles have a proper superhet receiver with a multiple tuned varactor front end, which will allow you reach more than 2 miles on a lot less power than 50W. To give you an idea, my XPR6550 portable, (which uses the same receiver as the 4550 mobile) can easily reach 1.5 miles on just 1 watt. Where? in the Madison WI area, which is super-hilly  suburban terrain... All my 6550 radios are used (2nd hand), some have small scratches, etc, but the scratches didn't stop them from demolishing all the crap inexpensive radios I own... 
 
Some background: most of those GMRS cheap mobiles usually show a 10-20 dBm loss in effective sensitivity, a loss that cannot be made up by just cranking power to 50W. 20dBm means you'll need 100 times the power to make up for it... So, if a radio has 95 dBm effective sensitivity means that it won't be able to hear anything below the 95 dBm mark... vs. a radio which has 115 dBm effective sensitivity, which will be able to hear equally good a signal coming from a 1 watt radio as a 95 dBm effective sensitivity radio would hear a 100 watt signal.
 
That is the importance of having a real receiver with tuned front end... etc.
 
G.

And this, ladies and gentlemen is the best example of "doing it right, doing it once" Dang it... I guess I am in need to step up the ante here... 7/8" holy anaconda Batman.... and I am only running FSJ4-50B as my 25 feet feedline... all silver and trimetal connectors, tho.
 
G.
 

That's how it's done, build it for your own use and share with others.

I have shared similar stories with others over time that want to get into the radio hobby. Getting in cheap may not always keep them involved with poor performance. Buying quality equipment that works normally keeps them around a bit more. Its not only the subscribers but also when it comes to repeaters. A MTR3000 with a duplexor and DB404 is going to out perform and Baofeng back to back with separate mag mounts on an ammo can....but some people dont get that. 
 
(BTW not saying folks need to invest 15K for a repeater but my point was you get what you pay for)

I have shared similar stories with others over time that want to get into the radio hobby. Getting in cheap may not always keep them involved with poor performance. Buying quality equipment that works normally keeps them around a bit more. Its not only the subscribers but also when it comes to repeaters. A MTR3000 with a duplexor and DB404 is going to out perform and Baofeng back to back with separate mag mounts on an ammo can....but some people dont get that. 
 
(BTW not saying folks need to invest 15K for a repeater but my point was you get what you pay for)

I guess this was the culmination of what started with just a couple of Baofengs UV-5R back in 2013ish...
 
So, couple of days ago I finally bit the bullet and got my first XPR7550e, been eyeing those for a long time, form factor and performance, I've even programmed a couple for a friend, but never really tested them.... But now this one is mine... my own, my precious.... hahaha, and I just cannot even begin to describe how amazing this radio is. I ran every possible test I could think of, high RF noise, no antenna, ... everything short of an ISOTEE test (since the 7550e doesn't have an SMA connector)... and the 7550e beat every other commercial grade radio I own by an ample margin. Including EVX-539 portables, XPR6550s... and it utterly humiliated the garbage China radios... it demolished all those CCRS even harder than the EVX/6550 did...
 
We did a 1 watt range test, on foot, one XPR6550 at home, ground floor, and the XPR7550e, along with a few other radios on us. Remember, terrain around here is very hilly, not flat, this is Madison WI, where you won't find a flat piece of land anywhere... So, we walked exactly 1.89 miles distance on 1 watt, ground to ground, before the XPR7550e was the only radio left standing, the only one able communicate with the 6550 at home. Measured RSSI Signal strength on the 7550e screen was -118 dBm @ 1.89 miles. Considering this radio would still produce audible (and intelligible) digital audio all the way down to ~ -129 dBm, I think it still had, at least, 1/4 mile of range left on it...  The XPR7550e was using the PMAE4070A antenna, and all other radios used PMAE4048A antennas, except for the GD77 which used a Vertex Standard UHF antenna since it uses the sticking out SMA (female)...
 
At that distance, 1.89 miles, even my best-tuned EVX-539 portable, with a really good Motorola GMRS antenna PMAE4048A, the RX light was just blinking but no audio could be heard. The XPR6550 was about the same as the EVX-539... the light would  blink, but no audio heard either.
 
All those LMR radios stopped communicating at about the same distance, or around the 1.5 miles mark, and at 1.6 miles the digital robotic/breakup made voice communication 100% unintelligible on all those. 
 
We also tested the following China radios on DMR:
Alinco MD5 (made by AnyTone)
Baofeng BF-1801Radioddity GD-77
Retevis RT-52
 
The Alinco MD5 was the best of the pack, it performed similar to the EVX-539/6550, and also used the same PMAE4048A antenna, but at 1.89 miles the light would simply randomly blink and no audio could be heard.
 
Then the BF-1801, the GD-77 and the RT-52... all those stopped receiving audio completely at about .5 miles from the house, that's right, these cheap pieces of utter crap weren't able to communicate with a Motorola XPR6550 after just 0.6 miles... and you wonder why you don't have any range with these CCRs?...  
 
I think its time to stop wasting money, start saving up for a 2nd hand XPR7550e, just like I did... mine is used, it has a couple of small scratches on the screen...  but those scratches on the screen certainly didn't stop it from demolishing the "mint condition" RT-52 and all these pieces of China garbage...
 
Yes, I know, you need the CPS, you need a cable, heck, you need to actually invest some money to field a XPR7550e... I know, I know it quite well, b/c I also started with x2 Baoturd UV-5R CCR radios... but looking in retrospect I should've gone directly with an XPR7550e, I can safely say that it would've saved me a lot of money, a lot of sleepless nights trying to figure out why my radio range was measured in tenths of an inch rather that in tens of miles....
 
G.

I'm not sure if any of you ever got a communications license for a business before, but it is really expensive and time consuming. I charge customers around $3,000 per site, for a single frequency, and I'm not even the final coordinator. They charge as much as another $500 per application.
 
I have seen applications take months... even beyond a year in some cases, if the FCC asks for changes or amendments in order to come into compliance.
 
And you can't legally operate until the license is approved. That means all of the engineering documents are submitted, surveys are submitted, etc. You could spend $10,000-$15,000 for a small, local commercial radio system for just one frequency and a few radios. Many businesses find it much easier and cheaper to stick to free services like FRS and MURS for that very reason.

151.4 for is a PL/CTCSS tone.

This is why FCC Type Acceptance is a GMRS requirement.
 
"Build your own repeater" is a HAM project, not a GMRS project.

Okay,
I’ll bite here.  I own a repeater (Rugged 575) in Naperville, IL at 300' receive / 250’ transmit.  It’s on a commercial site with other UHF and VHF radio systems as well.  Not only have I spent nearly 5 figures setting this up correctly but I monitor it as if it was my baby, cuz, you know, it *IS* my baby.  I built it with no financial help from anyone else.  Of course there was other help I received by LOTS of other commercial repeater owners (Those of you that are reading know who you are) as I’ve come a long way in the last year and some change here.  I have my repeater system set up for several different private family usage cases and I also have a tone for public which I closely monitor as well and others that are out there do use it.
 
As a repeater owner I’m super happy to turn my radio on and hear other people using it.  As a matter of fact just yesterday some other licensed GMRS users were using my repeater and I needed to use it with my wife as I was at the grocery store and I broke in and said, “hang tight guys, I need to talk to my wife for a minute.  I’ll let you know when I’m done”.  Anyways, I flipped to our tone, talked with her about the particulars, then went back to the public side and said “Carry on guys!  Glad to hear you out there using the machine”.
 
That being said, mine is set to “Ask permission” as well because as others have mentioned, I want to know who is using it to verify their license and location because it’s my system and it’s my responsibility to make sure it’s up to par on the commercial shared site.  I have sent an email back to EVERY! SINGLE! PERSON! As well welcoming them with the tones to use it!  I haven’t had the need (yet) to ever reject anyone from using my repeater but I still keep a tab on who has access to it as in my opinion, it’s my responsibility to do so.
 
Not only that, but I have my custom verbiage I send back with every request as well stating that this is a family repeater as well and to aid to traffic on the other PL tone.  Heck, I’ll paste what I send you can see where we are coming from with this:
 
“The tone for my repeater is XXXX (left blank) (N – normal, not inverted).
 
When you key up for the first time please identify yourself using your call sign and call for ROB.  I am regulating who is using my repeater as it is being used for my family as well.
 
I have received an exceeding amount of requests to use my repeater.  Originally this was set up for family only use but seeing as the range is far better than expected, I have opened it up on an as-requested basis to any licensed GMRS operator.  PLEASE NOTE:  ALL TRAFFIC MUST YIELD TO MY FAMILY.  The tone for public use is different than family so if you see your radio lighting up receiving on 462.575 but no audio is coming through on your radio it's because my family is talking so please do not key up until that traffic has cleared.
 
Thanks and I hope to hear you on the air!”
 
 
That being said, sometimes users don’t understand what a multi-table is either so I will say this too:  When you first use a new repeater you should ALWAYS call out for a radio check IMO because you don’t know how that repeater is set up and should NEVER assume anything!  I was in Iowa once and I made contact to the owner on the traveler tone (I was travelling) and he told me that it’s linked to another repeater in California!  NONE of this information was posted on mygmrs.com and upon googling I couldn’t even find it either!!!  It was good to know that I was keying multiple machines too and me and the owner had a nice long 30 minute conversation and he was glad I keyed up and shouted out!
 
To sum up further as a repeater owner:  *MOST*, but not *ALL* repeater owners don’t mind you using their machine I’ve found.  Now I’m in the Midwest mind you, so again, no assumptions would be made for other machines that I’ve never used, but around here most repeater owners are very happy to have you on their machine and it brings a great smile to their face to know that they are serving the public with a reliable communication system and growing the hobby as well!
 
Remember that GMRS isn’t HAM and HAM isn’t GMRS.  A *LOT* of people out there want GMRS for family use under one license and that’s what I’m doing but I’ve decided to open it up to the public as well as the coverage is fairly decent.  I looked at getting a business license and could have easily done it too but I like the idea of being able to chat with my family *AND* other GMRS users so here we are!
 
Thanks!

I have been an Amateur for 20 years and had a 70 cm repeater up until lightning took it out. I have 3 GMRS repeaters. I only require permission for one reason. I want to verify a valid license for the user. I've never denied anyone permission to use any of them. I do restrict one of them to Emergency use or roadside assistance because it is an older machine, and keeping traffic on it low to make it last longer.
I only want to know something about my users, and verify a valid license. With the proliferation of the Chinese dual banders, anyone with $40 can access my machines and make up a call. I've seen this happen on amateur repeaters. Call me cautious.

Sorry. Days I forget not everyone knows all the ways some of us talk...
 
 
 
Edit ...Should have read all the posts as i see another has already filled you in.....

If you are referring to WRFS771's posts, and I assume you are, note he has not logged in since his 09/16 post in this thread.  I personally hope he comes back to perhaps explain the basis for his posts. But, I am guessing that won't happen.

Good point. Although, in some cases that may be a feature. One specific case is users who want to program more than 8 logical repeaters*. Many of the certified GMRS radios limit the number of logical repeater channels and also restrict them to specific memory locations (aka radio dial channels).  Also, given the apparently complicated front panel programming procedures, I am not sure an application based configuration system might not be better for many users.
 
Still, as you note, one more important thing to consider when selecting a radio.
 
* A logical repeater is a unique combination of frequency (GMRS Channel), CTCSS/DCS, and other access setting(s), bandwidth (wide or narrow), and power.

Just remember none of the radios mentioned other than the Midland is ready out of the box. Thats the biggest issue for some folks. Not everyone is able to program a unit or even understands why they need to. I had a guy show up on a saearch a few years back. He had a CCR handheld and mobile and neither was on our SAR channels. When i asked him how it was programmed the answer was "it came programmed".... after the incident i worked with him and it was all out of the box channels. 
 
Personally I prefer LMR radios and for myself have all APX in my primary vehicles as i use them for public safety also. But for folks like my parents the midland was the best option. Eventually I will upgrade them one vehicle at a time with something commercial. I just installed the ICOM F221 at my guest house (winter home for them) with a base antenna so he doesn't need to leave an HT on all the time this winter.

OK. I think we all agree you dont like GMRS, dont like the rules of GMRS and dont like the FCC. Simple solution go find another service to use. 

Just remember none of the radios mentioned other than the Midland is ready out of the box. Thats the biggest issue for some folks. Not everyone is able to program a unit or even understands why they need to. I had a guy show up on a saearch a few years back. He had a CCR handheld and mobile and neither was on our SAR channels. When i asked him how it was programmed the answer was "it came programmed".... after the incident i worked with him and it was all out of the box channels. 
 
Personally I prefer LMR radios and for myself have all APX in my primary vehicles as i use them for public safety also. But for folks like my parents the midland was the best option. Eventually I will upgrade them one vehicle at a time with something commercial. I just installed the ICOM F221 at my guest house (winter home for them) with a base antenna so he doesn't need to leave an HT on all the time this winter.

A “fixed station” means dedicated for communications between fixed points and is usually for purposes of telemetry, linking, or control. In the situation you describe, since both stations could be used to communicate with any other GMRS stations for general traffic, both would be base stations, not fixed, and would have no special power limitations other than those that might be specified for the frequency in use.

I have seen where someone wanted to have a station at their home, dedicated to communication only with their mother. They were going to use Yagi antennas aimed at each other to get better range. I would think those would be considered "fixed stations" by definition give
n in the beginning of Part 95.

In the Part 90 world, the wording "Fixed station" refers to an FX1 designation, which most people would consider a Control Station. Usually a mobile in a tray attached to a power supply (often, and wrongly called a base station). That unit is used at a stationary location to communicate with a distant repeater (often using a directional Yagi antenna).
 
Limiting the power of an FX1 was designed to keep people from interfering with distant repeaters on the same frequency pair. In the old 800/900 Mhz SMR world, it was also used in conjunction with the "20 foot rule" which kept the elevation above ground of an FX1's antenna in a reasonable range.
 
I'm not aware of the term "Fixed station" being defined anywhere in the Part 95 rules, but it makes sense to me that power limitations on a repeater's input are designed to limit interference to distant repeaters on the input frequencies. If you're operating on the 462.xxx output frequency (lower side of the pair) - then you're an FB designation, a Fixed Base - or an FB2, which is a repeater.

OK all, Lets just all agree every one uses GMRS for a different purpose. People get into it for different reasons. 
 
Now back to the original post. Pretty much same thing. Some open it up others dont.
 
Happy RF !

In the Amateur Radio world, all offsets that are commonly used and considered best practice, have come out of a developed band plan.  The band plan dictates what the offsets (frequency pairs) are for coordination, to help prevent harmful interference with other repeaters and other services inside of those allocated spaces.  The American Radio Relay League defines the band plan as "a voluntary division of a band to avoid interference between incompatible modes."
 
Does anyone know if something similar exists for GMRS and its repeater offsets?  Tradition seems like a good answer, but I have to think there is more to it than that.
 
Also, using non-standard pairs would likely end up causing interference for others who are using the standard +5 in a GMRS dense area like where I am.  There are repeaters around my house on every available (standard) pair, with some overlap with several machines, that only have PL tones separating which machine you bring up. 
 
You would also break the repeater capability for every repeater capable type approved radio on the market.  The FCC issued a PDF as guidance to the makers to help ensure devices meet the type acceptance criteria, and that document shows the +5MHz offsets.  While it may not be codified in the rules, based on the document, I am pretty sure that +5MHz is what's expected by the FCC, too.

All I can say is Wow!
 
Thanks Berkinet for saying what was on my mind.
 
 
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