JarrGen

Leave them alone, the influenzers and their court. People who can read and able to put 2+2 together will find out about 462.675-141.3 very quickly. Those who have youtube-watching gland overdeveloped will congregate on channel nineteen. Win for everybody.

Actually, there is another channel that has been in place for decades. 462.675 pl 141.3 has been the recognized travel channel for decades. Many repeaters are here, on this frequency/tone.

It would have been a good idea to do your homework before all this. All you are doing is creating confusion.

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True. It's the ones that don't know about line a and c. Read the internet or watch clips from influencer and are unaware they just violated a international treaty.

It is our job as a community to watch out for it as a whole. How many times are the same questions asked? It is the nature of the hobby. Not like gmrs actually requires a test.

As someone who use to cross line a to visit in laws on a regular basis pre covid. Thos frequencies are very much in use, by public safety and other services.

So it behoofs us to use a frequency that is ok to use for the entire country.

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Ya'll go ahead and discuss your silly games.
Off Road vehicles already have decided Ch 16 for the call channel.?

There are only two GMRS channels that may not be used above Line A: channels 19 and 21.  I understand the desire to pay homage to “Channel 19”, but having a “Road Channel” that people within 100 miles of the Canadian border could use, such as the citizens of “Motor City” or Seattle, might be important.  The channel 19 touch was a cool idea, though.  It’s just better to have a single road channel that anyone can use.

I would support the idea if it weren’t for the fact that 10 - 12 million people live far enough north that they are not allowed to use channel 19 because of an agreement with Canada.

I would only put code plugs online for certified GMRS radios. Putting code plugs for other CCR style radios is just promoting no compliant radios. 

I really like this idea here.

I'll be blunt. I made the conscience decision to invest into GMRS for the freedom and to engage with other like minded folks. If I wanted a hall monitor correcting my behavior or some sort of strict regimentation I'd go get a ham ticket. Also, it's important to note that many of us live in the outskirts, the boonies, the sticks where there isn't any radio traffic. We would relish the opportunity to "call up" a pal and chat a bit. As long as we're being respectful to others and yielding the channel when necessary, I see nothing wrong with using the radio in that fashion. Besides, it's good practice for that SHTF scenario that the marketing folks so succinctly suggest the equipment is good for.

I feel like there's a perception among some of the long time gmrs users, especially with the influx of users the last few years (between boredom and disasters), that the growth of a hobbyist mindset is going to turn gmrs into a free for all like cb became. I think this is where some of the discouraging attitudes stem from toward hobbyist mindset on gmrs.
I'm in the camp that, while hobbyist usage isn't the main intent of the service, there's also nothing in the the regulations that prohibits using it in that way. It just means I need to temper my expectations of what I'm likely to find on the radio waves. And I've been trying to walk that line with a lot of the new user threads...show then the reality without making it like I'm trying to totally rain on their enthusiasm for a new hobby.

I will be the first to admit I am NOT a GMRS historian!
BUT: the implication of your comments is that: GMRS users are NOT allowed to find folks, whether by repeater or otherwisel they are NOT allowed to "go buy a radio and start calling for people to answer."
I cannot find any justification for your assumed prohibition of such activities on GMRS and hence they are allowed to jump on GMRS to find folks, whether through repeaters or otherwise; and/or go buy a radio and start calling for people to answer, even if you personally chose NOT to do such activities.
Just so we are not misleading other GMRS users reading this thread.

I really like this idea here.

ORI = Open Repeater Initiative 
 
The idea that GMRS repeaters would be "Open" - and available for any licensed user. Usually goes hand in hand with the ubiquitous 141.3 Hz "Travel tone".

There is something called the Open Repeater Initiative or OPI. It uses 462.675 with a CTCSS Tone of 141.3Hz. The frequency was selected by a group of Repeater owners who wanted to create a standard for travelers to be able to have easy access to repeater while on the road, without having to search for a repeater or ask for permission to use it. The 141.3 tone was also selected as the "travel tone" standard.
 
Scanning the frequencies is okay, but you may only talk for a couple of miles. Using open repeaters with "traveler" settings gives you a chance to reach the greatest number of operators for more distance and time.

That is great news!  I'll be all over that 575!  

Amen!

Just thought I would post a link and some text from the FCC which is relevant to this topic.
 
https://www.fcc.gov/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs
 
As of 2020-12-25 the last paragraph in the linked page reads/read:
 
“In transient use, a mobile station from one GMRS system may communicate through a mobile relay station (repeater) in another GMRS system with the permission of its licensee. The communications may also be with mobile stations from other GMRS systems also with permission from the licensee to communicate through the mobile relay station”
 
The relevant phase is, used twice, “with permission from the licensee”.
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
 
 
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Marc,
I dont know what a Red Rock is. The Miami 725 is up and running. Just got on from Homestead and machine is downtown. A preamp will be added in near future to improve receive sensitivity. I have to edit listing as it ended up on backup site for .325 ham repeater which is at 750'.
 
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The responses I've seen here are interesting and I guess I can attribute it to location. Most ham repeaters here are personally funded. The clubs are broke lol. Those putting up the machines do it for all to use. The few closed ham repeaters are looked down upon and heckled. You want a closed repeater? Get a cellphone. This mentality carried over to GMRS repeaters put up by hams.To each their own.
 
You guys are all welcome to use the Miami 725 when in town. No permission needed.

I would leave them alone and enjoy what you hear.  They could be using DLRs instead of DTRs because they are compatible with the DTRs.  The local Costco Wholesale store near me uses DLR radios and I can hear them on my DTR650 and DTR700 radios when I'm in range. 
The local business you are hearing is 100% legit with their radios.  It's not your problem, so don't make it your problem.  No need to spoil their fun and your ability to listen to them.  They probably don't have a clue and are simply using the radios right out of the box at the factory default settings like FRS bubble packs.  That's how the local Costco store near me seems to operate.
The DLRs will transmit very badly distorted audio if someone shouts into them or talks too close to the mic.  You can tell when DLRs are being used by the badly distorted audio.  The DTR600/700 models have better transmit audio due to automatic gain control (AGC) in the Tx audio path.  The DLRs and legacy DTR410/550/650 models don't have AGC in the transmit audio.  The DTR600/700 models have the best Tx audio, the DLRs have the worst audio, and the legacy DTR410/550/650 models are somewhere in between.  I wish Motorola would update the firmware in the DLRs to add AGC to the transmit audio.
I have custom programming in my DTR fleet and have several private groups set up in them.  I mostly use the private groups.  I purposely keep the factory default programming in them as part of my custom programming to monitor for local activity in my travels and to be able to talk to defaulted DTRs and DLRs if needed.
 

Maybe I am the only one, but I am confused about the purpose of this ongoing rant. Complaints on an online forum are not going to change anything. If you want change, file a Petition for Rulemaking with the FCC. Then get people to support your petition.
 
But, to the points you raise. First, about GMRS radios themselves: Some of your facts are wrong or off target, there is no need for a -5 MHz (not KHz) offset on a GMRS radio. There are only 8 repeater input frequencies defined and those are all 5MHz higher than the 8 defined repeater input frequencies. And, the number of internal memory locations (aka "channels) that a given user needs is very difficult to determine. Probably more than 22, but 180? Zello? Zello works just fine without a GMRS radio at all. But, Zello is an Internet (IP) based app, which means anything that connects to Zello needs an Internet connection. But, you also suggest GMRS should work when away from any cellular infrastructure. So, how is your Zello equipped GMRS radio supposed to connect to Zello when you are in the middle of nowhere? And you complaint about morse code, I really don't know what that is about? We live in a free market economic system. Manufacturers are free to offer products they feel will meet customer and investor needs. You have a choice. And, if you don't like the certified GMRS products you can choose from, there are plenty of other options, from super-cheap CCRs to super-high end Part-90 commercial equipment.
 
Technical questions aside, your major complaint seems to be about licensing fees. Here again I think you are off base. Many services, especially commercial, marine, aviation, LMR, broadcast, common carrier, cellular, etc. have licensing fees and they are often quite expensive. At $7 a year, GMRS is cheap by comparison. Yes, it is more than Amateur. But, Amateur radio is also considered a public service, with a long history and International agreements. And, what difference does it make who you pay a licensing fee to the FCC, the ARRL, a local radio club or whatever? But, even here you are not current. There is now a proposal in the FCC to lower GMRS licensing fees to $50 and add a fee for Amateur radio. The reason? It appears federal law requires fees be set to recover costs. The GMRS fee was bringing in too much money, ham radio was bringing in nothing.
 
You also object to being taxed on your GMRS radio, but have no issue with the FCC requiring a cell phone company to offer a GMRS repeater service on every tower for free. When you consider the equipment and installation costs, plus administration and maintenance costs, are you willing to pay for that every month when Verizon and AT&T raise your bill to cover their costs? There is no free lunch.
 
Ok, you obviously feel strongly about something, otherwise you wouldn't have started this topic and posted 7 follow-up comments. But, it is really hard to understand just what it is you are complaining about and what you think should be done about it. Can you succinctly state the top 5 high level problems you see with GMRS today, the reasons you think those are problems, and 5 proposed solutions.

I'm not sure if any of you ever got a communications license for a business before, but it is really expensive and time consuming. I charge customers around $3,000 per site, for a single frequency, and I'm not even the final coordinator. They charge as much as another $500 per application.
 
I have seen applications take months... even beyond a year in some cases, if the FCC asks for changes or amendments in order to come into compliance.
 
And you can't legally operate until the license is approved. That means all of the engineering documents are submitted, surveys are submitted, etc. You could spend $10,000-$15,000 for a small, local commercial radio system for just one frequency and a few radios. Many businesses find it much easier and cheaper to stick to free services like FRS and MURS for that very reason.