Licensing

[Guest jan]

Is my Ham Technician license good for GMRS, or do I need a separate GMRS license?

Thanks.

[gortex2]

No you need to purchase a GMRS ticket. I would also suggest you researching what ham frequencies you are authorized on. 

[WyoJoe]

On 9/8/2021 at 1:38 PM, Guest jan said:

Is my Ham Technician license good for GMRS, or do I need a separate GMRS license?

Thanks.

Ham (amateur) and GMRS are two different radio services, as defined by the FCC, so you would need a separate license for each in order to legally transmit on both services. Of course you can monitor (listen) all you want without any need for a license.

[mbrun]

Seconding those before me.

Yes, you need a separate license for GMRS. Apply for it online and you will likely have it within 12-48 hours.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[WRHS218]

There is no test for the GMRS license. You buy it online at the FCC website.

[Guest Mike]

I located this website that explained why and how to obtain a GMRS license.  Follow the steps listed on the websites and you be up and talking (legally) in no time at all.  I just received my 10 year license purchased for $70.00 that covers my immediate family members.  Be well! 

https://midlandusa.com/why-do-i-need-a-gmrs-license-how-do-i-get-it/

[Guest MReese]

Hello GMRS forum. I need some help. I just sent the FCC $70 of my hard earned money this AM but I have a few GMRS radio items on order. Once I’m “legal” I’ll become a member of this site. 

My question revolves around this…

I ordered a Midland MXT-400 for my home base station. Midland suggested the Browning BR-6410 omnidirectional antennae for my roof. Their customer service has been bogged down and I’ve had other questions I haven’t had answered. To order the right feed cable I THINK I need an RG8 cable (I’m going 60-70’) with an N-male connector for the BR-6410 side and a PL-259 connector on the Midland MXT-400 side. Can anyone confirm the cable/connectors are correct and is there a recommended site to order this specialty cable from?

All the best,

M. Reese

[axorlov]

Should be Browning 6140, no? 6140 gave me years of very good problem-free performance. It used to sell for the whopping $35, now the cheapest I can find is $50 on amazon and $50 on newegg. If you only need GMRS, I would recommend it over popular Ed Fong antenna for the reasons outlined here on this forum many times. You can use search to read yourself. If you want ham and GMRS, I still would recommend something else over Ed Fong's antenna (Diamond X50). Yes, BR-6140 has female N-connector, so you cable should have male N-Connector on the antenna side. RG8/U would be an ok choice, however do not confuse it with RG8X, which would be much more more lossy, but smaller and easier to handle. RG8X is better suited for short tight runs, like when you are doing car install. LMR-400 is much better choice (two times better than RG8/U or RG213), when we are talking about 50 feet and more. It is also more popular, easier to find everywhere with connectors and without.

Cable attenuation chart: https://w4rp.com/ref/coax.html

Thread here about cables and loss (sadly, pics are stripped):

 

I tend to buy my cable and connectors from DX Engineering, unless I'm feeling real cheap and adventurous on that particular day, in which case it's ebay.

 

[Guest Craig D.]

I paid for my license and have not received my call sign how long does it usually take? do they email you?

[pcradio]

5 hours ago, Guest Craig D. said:

I paid for my license and have not received my call sign how long does it usually take? do they email you?

You should have it in less than 48 hours.

[DownEastNC]

23 hours ago, Guest Craig D. said:

I paid for my license and have not received my call sign how long does it usually take? do they email you?

Yes, they email you with a link to a downloadable pdf which is your radio station authorization (license). I received mine the day after order but I've heard it could be a couple days

[MichaelLAX]

On 9/8/2021 at 1:38 PM, Guest jan said:

Is my Ham Technician license good for GMRS, or do I need a separate GMRS license?

Thanks.

Here's a hypothetical:

If a licensed Ham programs his 70 cm rig to transmit on 446.0 MHz and receive on 462.5625 and a licensed GMRS user programs his HT to transmit on 462.5625 and receive on 446.0, is their conversation within the FCC Rules for both services?

[jgillaspy]

Interesting take on "gaming" the FCC. The issue would be finding a Part 95e-certified radio that can be setup to receive outside of GMRS in the UHF spectrum. Now an older Part 95-certified radio (think Kenwood or Motorola) you could probably get this to work.

But why?!?

JG

[MichaelLAX]

Methinks many Part 95 certified radios can receive outside of GMRS (but of course, not transmit) and even act as Public Service scanners.

I'm pretty sure my Pofung P15UV (clone of Radioddity GM-30) can do this, but I gave it to my 10 year old Grandson to try and spark a bit more interest from him in lieu of his FRS "bubble wrap" HTs. I know my Anytone AT-779UVs can do this.

Thinking of ways to get more Hams interested in GMRS before they commit to a GMRS hardware expenditure; and got your interest peaked! 

Now how about GMRS/MURS crossband?!? hahaha  Admittedly hard to find a MURS radio that also receives UHF.

[axorlov]

1 hour ago, MichaelLAX said:

Here's a hypothetical:

If a licensed Ham programs his 70 cm rig to transmit on 446.0 MHz and receive on 462.5625 and a licensed GMRS user programs his HT to transmit on 462.5625 and receive on 446.0, is their conversation within the FCC Rules for both services?

One fool can ask more questions than one hundred wise can answer, but I'll answer this: Specifically prohibited by 95.1733 (9). And I'm too lazy to look up an identical line in Part 97, but I'm sure it exists.

Edit

Ah, what the hell, here it is: 97.111 (b) and 97.113 (b)

[wayoverthere]

1 hour ago, jgillaspy said:

Interesting take on "gaming" the FCC. The issue would be finding a Part 95e-certified radio that can be setup to receive outside of GMRS in the UHF spectrum. Now an older Part 95-certified radio (think Kenwood or Motorola) you could probably get this to work.

But why?!?

JG

It depends on the hardware the radio is based on. Afaik, even the wouxun kg805g's will receive uhf outside gmrs, the VTech and wouxun kg1000g mobiles receive a lot of both vhf and uhf.  Fairly sure the uv5r based radios can receive a lot of vhf &UHF as well. I know my 95a vertex stuff can do it also. (On a side note, i have the transmit side of all the public safety channels saved on the vertex set to low power on 462.5625...better to accidentally key up there where it's already a bubble pack mess anyway than a public safety channel)

That said, as @axorlov provided the code for, one would have a hard time arguing the other station isn't in the amateur service if they're talking back to you on 446.000.

I'm fully with you on the "why?" though, especially on the MURS scenario, since that's effectively license free.

[Lscott]

3 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

Here's a hypothetical:

If a licensed Ham programs his 70 cm rig to transmit on 446.0 MHz and receive on 462.5625 and a licensed GMRS user programs his HT to transmit on 462.5625 and receive on 446.0, is their conversation within the FCC Rules for both services?

No. This I had thought about this exact scenario a long time ago and rejected it for the following reasons.

The rules state, last I read them, that stations in the Amateur service may only communicate with other stations in the Amateur service. The second I-got-you is doing what you propose is effectively making a one way transmission, see point above, which is only allowed for testing and in very few other limited conditions on an occasional basis, again for the Amateur service.

While the method would allow one to cross communicate between services without using modified radios the rules effectively shut the door on it.

[MichaelLAX]

One good question leads to another... leads to a good solution:

On 9/8/2021 at 1:38 PM, Guest jan said:

Is my Ham Technician license good for GMRS, or do I need a separate GMRS license?

 

6 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

Here's a hypothetical:

If a licensed Ham programs his 70 cm rig to transmit on 446.0 MHz and receive on 462.5625 and a licensed GMRS user programs his HT to transmit on 462.5625 and receive on 446.0, is their conversation within the FCC Rules for both services?

The GMRS rules clearly provide in %95.1733 (a)(9), that: 

Quote

"(a) ...  GMRS stations must not communicate: (9) Messages (except emergency messages) to any station in the Amateur Radio Service..."

And that is where my cross-band hypothetical becomes relevant:

11 hours ago, Trad77 said:

I received my GMRS license about a month ago and what I have been learning is... crickets.  Locally we have one repeater and I NEVER hear anything on it.  I use it to try to get some activity on it but, it sits quiet.  I also call out on simplex as well.  Nothing.  What can a dude like me do to get more activity around here?  What do you do to get more activity in your local area.  So far, I have looked up any kind of group or club for GMRS, I tried to get my (very few) friends into GMRS (they dont care) I have asked co-workers (they dont have a clue what I was talking about haha) and then I just call out all the time for someone to reply.  Anyway, Im just asking for a little bit of help and encouragement to continue forward with GMRS because its pretty hard to talk to yourself out on the air.  

5 hours ago, Trad77 said:

I am in Wyoming... Poe Dunk, Wyoming. haha.

@Trad77, not being in a large metropolitan region, but in one of the least populated States of the Union, should definitely get in touch with a local Ham who has 440 MHz capability and define a cross-band channel (for example, as I stated earlier: Tx: 462.5625; Rx: 446.0 for @Trad77 and Tx: 446.0; Rx: 462.5625 for the local Ham, for communication in case of an emergency!

While not all Hams are proficient at handling emergency traffic, clearly for the last 100 years, it has been Amateur Radio operators who have handled communication for emergency after emergency.

So, @Trad77 should have a system available to him to communicate with a local Ham during such an emergency and not rely on his GMRS which in all probability will not reach anyone of substance during an emergency.

 

[Lscott]

Ah, a slight of hand bringing up emergency communications. That wasn’t part of the original question I quoted from your post.

Under emergency conditions the rules have a few exceptions. However as a general point, as one is lead to believe by your original question, it’s prohibited. That hasn’t changed.

[MichaelLAX]

No voodoo intended:

The OP asked his question; I asked mine and when I considered the specific Rule, while also following @Trad77 ‘s thread, and having experience in Montana, I just put it all together. 
 

You know from my comments in other threads, I believe in radios that can transmit on both GMRS and Ham , and all of my radios can do that, except for my Pofung P15UV, which I purchased primarily for its tone-scanning capabilities on both services. 

[Lscott]

I address the specific question that was quoted. Rule exceptions under emergency conditions are another whole topic. Mingling the exceptions with standard operating conditions does nothing but confuse people.

People can decide themselves what to do with their equipment. What’s needed is clarity. You can have a radio that operates on both Ham and GMRS. So is it really a Ham radio modified to operate on GMRS frequencies, or is it a GMRS radio that can be programmed to operate on Ham frequencies? If it’s as you believe then why aren’t all GMRS radios out of the box designed to work on the Ham bands WITHOUT mucking with it first such as using manufactures undocumented software mod’s and “mode” changes. The same question can be asked about Ham equipment. After all what are the “MARS/CAP” mod’s?

Reading the rules for GMRS one requirement is the frequency determining controls are not accessible outside of the transmitter. This is necessary for Part 95 certification. The channel selector doesn’t count because all legal frequencies are preset and can’t be changed by the user. Enabling a VCO type operation violates that requirement and by definition no longer meets type certification. While you may not care there are others who do and shouldn’t be misled.

[mbrun]

I paid for my license and have not received my call sign how long does it usually take? do they email you?

My personal experience over the last two years has been 10-48 hours. During that time, I have applied for license using the ULS for myself, and on behalf of some blind operators.

Feel free to log back in to the FCC using your FRN number and double check your status. If a callsign appears you are golden. Check the data you entered while there to make sure it is all correct too, including your email.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[pcradio]

Quote

§ 95.1733 Prohibited GMRS uses.
(a) In addition to the prohibited uses outlined in § 95.333 of this chapter, GMRS stations must not communicate:
(9) Messages (except emergency messages) to any station in the Amateur Radio Service, to any unauthorized station, or to any foreign station;

Heading (a) refers to a Station. Heading (9) expands on that.

What this means, in practicality, is that if you operate a GMRS station (you have a license to do so), then the equipment and area you operate this station from (vehicle, on person, or shack) must not be used to contact an Amateur station.

If you also have an Amateur station (and license), the GMRS station supersedes that, and you must not communicate from within the GMRS station to an Amateur station. You will need a separate Amateur station in another vehicle, separate room in your home, etc.

I come to these forums so that I make sure I'm in compliance. The FCC regulations are clear, buy more stuff because it makes more sense.

[axorlov]

14 minutes ago, pcradio said:

You will need a separate Amateur station in another vehicle, separate room in your home, etc.

There is no requirement that transmitters for different services were in different rooms or vehicles. "Station" is an equipment, not a location.

[pcradio]

29 minutes ago, axorlov said:

There is no requirement that transmitters for different services were in different rooms or vehicles. "Station" is an equipment, not a location.

How can equipment hardware itself be foreign? That is a reference to location. Equipment that is authorized can suddenly be not so, when it is in a different location. You can't say two different things at the same time.

The point of this exercise it to show the FCC says many things that are not practical and logical. What amazes me is the amount of online posters who genuinely suggest that one must purchase three radios for their truck to use services they are licensed for.

If one can interpret the regulations with that level of logic, almost makes you wonder if they are mentally okay?