Un-official GMRS travel channel?

[axorlov]

3 minutes ago, DanW said:

tell us what you really think

I just told you what I think.

Stay with your queen
On chan nineteen!

[gortex2]

18 hours ago, n4gix said:

No one? Obviously everyone on this website is licensed!

Correct. Guess I meant in the 4WD world. I continue to argue with folks on jeep forums over licenses. Even Jeep Jamboree doesn't seem to understand the rules which is sad. On my JJ event last year I asked everyone with a mobile radio I found including my guide. Majority had no license and bought the radio on amazon. 

[MichaelLAX]

38 minutes ago, kb2ztx said:

I continue to argue with folks on jeep forums over licenses.

Well considering the nationwide debate over vaccination, it was only a matter of time before "the constitutional right to drive without a license" movement was born! 

Keep up the good work! 

[DownEastNC]

11 hours ago, DanW said:

All I see is compound butthurt here.  Maybe someone else can translate in simple terms, so that I can understand it.

I can't help those who only want to see what they want to see. At this point you're acting like a troll. This is between me and offroaderwhatshisname so run along and hump somebody else's leg.

[gortex2]

As reference this does come up on other forums also. 

https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/calling-channel.429825/#post-3547729

https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/the-history-behind-462-675-mhz-and-the-travel-tone.374402/#post-2973504

An interesting read here that I think was linked in the past...

http://www.nsea.com//index_files/nseainfo.htm

In the end it really doesn't matter what anyone uses. Unless the FCC mandates or defines something folks don't need to follow along. I still do a lot in the NE and 19 is off limits. There is more chatter up there on simplex channels as cell is spotty. In the end you will still head more on CB than on GMRS as you travel as so many people still have CB. Its not like it was in the 70's but if you travel the interstates like I do you see alot of antenna's on more that just trucks. Especially in the south. (then again I think to register a pickup in SW VA you need a CB and a Dog box ).... 

Many GMRS users use the service for a specific task, like talking to friends or family, 4x4 trail riding, traffic control or farm use. I don't come across many folks calling on the radio wanting to just talk to someone. To some extent Ham radio is not much different. I have traveled down the highway and seen HAMs with huge stickers "monitoring 520" or similar. I'll switch over and never hear a peep. When I travel my HAM rig is on APRS and normally turned down. If I'm traveling I'm normally talking to the wife or navigating. If I'm in the motor home the CB is on 19 and my GMRs is on 20/20 as that's what my dad would be on. My on board repeater is on on 21 so its just channel up when I get where I'm setting up for the weekend/week. Around home I sit on my repeater channel and that's it. Even at home I don't scan other GMS channels other than my repeaters and PL. 

Good thing someone put a pole up but as said in an earlier post we are about 1% of the GMRS users. Many come and go from the forums as they either get GMRS and find out it doesn't do what they want or just loose interest in it. That could be a huge topic on another thread.... 

 

[DanW]

2 hours ago, DownEastNC said:

I can't help those who only want to see what they want to see. At this point you're acting like a troll. This is between me and offroaderwhatshisname so run along and hump somebody else's leg.

You are cute.  And I was right.  You do indeed have a beef with @OffRoaderX .  So I was right.  Again.  (Bet that hurt.)  

And I'll jump on your leg for one more round:  Canadians can now use channel channel 19.  So the line A rule is out of date.  That makes the whining about line A moot.  But I doubt it will make it mute, at least around here.

You call me a troll and yet you call names and sling insults.  Nice.  I think your fundamental problem is that you can't handle disagreement.  Hell, you've twice said you are done, and yet here you are. 

[DanW]

40 minutes ago, kb2ztx said:

As reference this does come up on other forums also. 

https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/calling-channel.429825/#post-3547729

https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/the-history-behind-462-675-mhz-and-the-travel-tone.374402/#post-2973504

An interesting read here that I think was linked in the past...

http://www.nsea.com//index_files/nseainfo.htm

In the end it really doesn't matter what anyone uses. Unless the FCC mandates or defines something folks don't need to follow along. I still do a lot in the NE and 19 is off limits. There is more chatter up there on simplex channels as cell is spotty. In the end you will still head more on CB than on GMRS as you travel as so many people still have CB. Its not like it was in the 70's but if you travel the interstates like I do you see alot of antenna's on more that just trucks. Especially in the south. (then again I think to register a pickup in SW VA you need a CB and a Dog box ).... 

Many GMRS users use the service for a specific task, like talking to friends or family, 4x4 trail riding, traffic control or farm use. I don't come across many folks calling on the radio wanting to just talk to someone. To some extent Ham radio is not much different. I have traveled down the highway and seen HAMs with huge stickers "monitoring 520" or similar. I'll switch over and never hear a peep. When I travel my HAM rig is on APRS and normally turned down. If I'm traveling I'm normally talking to the wife or navigating. If I'm in the motor home the CB is on 19 and my GMRs is on 20/20 as that's what my dad would be on. My on board repeater is on on 21 so its just channel up when I get where I'm setting up for the weekend/week. Around home I sit on my repeater channel and that's it. Even at home I don't scan other GMS channels other than my repeaters and PL. 

Good thing someone put a pole up but as said in an earlier post we are about 1% of the GMRS users. Many come and go from the forums as they either get GMRS and find out it doesn't do what they want or just loose interest in it. That could be a huge topic on another thread.... 

 

That was my experience in VT/NH/ME in October.  Nobody but our group used GMRS.  But the CB was indeed active at times, even in small towns and a couple times in remote areas of Maine. 

[WROZ437]

Eh. I get it. Some people feel upset that the conversation ended abruptly and with no consideration a decision was made. Fair enough. As a noob I take no issue with what occurred, whether it be tongue in cheek, directed at a small audience, or ultimately catches on. Seems to me this “discussion” has been ongoing for years, or maybe even decades, with no resolution. While some may be upset that their points of view weren’t fully considered, at least some effort was made to make a decision. If it ends up being the end all be all it would seem to me that would ultimately be a good thing going forward. Maybe there would actually be some use…

[AdmiralCochrane]

20 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

I think they are quoting the GOOGLE Machine result and not searching within YouTube...

Neither am I.  It does not occur as such in page 1 of my searches.  Note that GOOGLE changes your search results based on cookies; the results you see ARE NOT the results everyone sees.

 

 Its probably a bigger data chaser than Facebook. 

[DownEastNC]

21 hours ago, DanW said:

You are cute.  And I was right.  You do indeed have a beef with @OffRoaderX .  So I was right.  Again.  (Bet that hurt.)  

And I'll jump on your leg for one more round:  Canadians can now use channel channel 19.  So the line A rule is out of date.  That makes the whining about line A moot.  But I doubt it will make it mute, at least around here.

You call me a troll and yet you call names and sling insults.  Nice.  I think your fundamental problem is that you can't handle disagreement.  Hell, you've twice said you are done, and yet here you are. 

Hey, I'm back. I have a question. Who elected you to be deputy Barney Fife? When you have a moment to get over your anger issues, review back a couple of posts or where I addressed your concerns in a tactful way. Evidently you didn't like my answer and you just want to provoke me in some fashion because you can't pin me down in some kind of "gotcha". I honestly don't know why you keep up the persecution but I am growing fond of it and I'm enjoying watching you continue to make an ass out of yourself. Oh, claiming that you're "Right" about some silly little nonsense that you conjured up doesn't mean squat, but hey, if you feel like you've won some kind of award then by all means go for it. Troll on!

[H8SPVMT]

On 1/9/2022 at 6:49 AM, kb2ztx said:

Correct. Guess I meant in the 4WD world. I continue to argue with folks on jeep forums over licenses. Even Jeep Jamboree doesn't seem to understand the rules which is sad. On my JJ event last year I asked everyone with a mobile radio I found including my guide. Majority had no license and bought the radio on amazon. 

JJAMUSA is at fault here in some degree I do believe that.  They heavily promoted Midland in the last two years and then weren't even using that brand.  (My experience) I got kicked around for asking questions because I was new to GMRS and questioning how this system was going to benefit the cause of communication. 

Long story short: FRS is OK and GMRS with more wattage is not what they were looking for I guess, for clearer communication on the trails.  But they haven't mastered the CTCSS / DCS codes yet as a group (causing crossed communication between different groups).

 

I remember too getting into CB's and having it explained that channel 19 was a CALL CHANNEL only.  If you made contact then you would move your conversation to another channel.

We all see how that worked out and then the license requirement was dropped.

I believe this (GMRS) is just another (new) rabbit hole we are all headed down.  So I'm not getting too serious about it at all.  Sit back and enjoy the conversations & OPINIONS as we all have one and they all "might matter....."

 

 

[gortex2]

12 minutes ago, H8SPVMT said:

JJAMUSA is at fault here in some degree I do believe that.  They heavily promoted Midland in the last two years and then weren't even using that brand.  (My experience) I got kicked around for asking questions because I was new to GMRS and questioning how this system was going to benefit the cause of communication. 

 

Yup. I noticed all the Corporate JJUSA guys were using Midlands now and they sell them at the events. The issue is many of the guides are volunteers and they carry baofengs and some other little mobiles. On the last event each ride had a different channel assigned from 1-22 with all as CSQ. During one section of the ride we were pretty high up and one of the guides even commented on how much interference they now get on GMRS that they didn't get on CB. I think it all depends on location but our trail was on channel 20 and were hearing a repeater come in loud and clear at times. Not sure how they "pick" the channels to use but I would think they would have to talk to local guides to see what's in use ahead of time. 

 

[Lscott]

23 hours ago, DanW said:

And I'll jump on your leg for one more round:  Canadians can now use channel channel 19.  So the line A rule is out of date.  That makes the whining about line A moot.  But I doubt it will make it mute, at least around here.

Here is a link to some info on the Canadian GMRS service. Note this link just high lights some changes. The complete list of frequencies are found elsewhere.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf08144.html#s3.1

However that doesn't really tell the whole story. While GMRS use in Canada is license free the power limit is set at 2 watts maximum, effectively just FRS radios.  Look at section E.1.5 in the following link for the power limits.

http://peppersradio.net/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=26

Here in the US we can run 5 watts on HT's, 50 watts on the repeater channels. The potential for interference at higher powers is not a moot point.

Have a look at section 7 at this link.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf08655.html

So if a Canadian GMRS user causes interference to a licensed service on a GMRS channel the GMRS user likely has to cease operations on that frequency.

I got my GMRS license in 2018 and the prohibited frequencies are clearly stated on the license. Further the FCC's web site still shows "Line A" and "Line C" for frequency restricted used on UHF.

https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-technology/electromagnetic-compatibility-division/frequency-coordination-canada-below

If one wants to propose a frequency, channel, for travel use at least pick one that isn't questionable due to various regulatory usage restrictions. While one may think the restrictions are "moot" it's still on your license, and you're legally required to comply with it. Until the FCC officially changes the rules we're stuck with it.

Being in the Detroit area I have to pay attention to these frequency restrictions. There are also some for the Ham Radio service too since I'm licensed for both services. In fact there was a GMRS net on the local repeater last night and the above was one of the topics of discussion.

[DanW]

 

[DanW]

9 hours ago, Lscott said:

Here is a link to some info on the Canadian GMRS service. Note this link just high lights some changes. The complete list of frequencies are found elsewhere.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf08144.html#s3.1

However that doesn't really tell the whole story. While GMRS use in Canada is license free the power limit is set at 2 watts maximum, effectively just FRS radios.  Look at section E.1.5 in the following link for the power limits.

http://peppersradio.net/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=26

Here in the US we can run 5 watts on HT's, 50 watts on the repeater channels. The potential for interference at higher powers is not a moot point.

Have a look at section 7 at this link.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf08655.html

So if a Canadian GMRS user causes interference to a licensed service on a GMRS channel the GMRS user likely has to cease operations on that frequency.

I got my GMRS license in 2018 and the prohibited frequencies are clearly stated on the license. Further the FCC's web site still shows "Line A" and "Line C" for frequency restricted used on UHF.

https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-technology/electromagnetic-compatibility-division/frequency-coordination-canada-below

If one wants to propose a frequency, channel, for travel use at least pick one that isn't questionable due to various regulatory usage restrictions. While one may think the restrictions are "moot" it's still on your license, and you're legally required to comply with it. Until the FCC officially changes the rules we're stuck with it.

Being in the Detroit area I have to pay attention to these frequency restrictions. There are also some for the Ham Radio service too since I'm licensed for both services. In fact there was a GMRS net on the local repeater last night and the above was one of the topics of discussion.

Some good points there.  

Remember, their licensing fee has been $35 for a year but their website says $70 and they still charge $70.  They are VERY slow to respond to changing conditions.  So if the FCC rule is no channel 19 use at all, even at low power, above line A, then it is clear they are already wrong and out of date.  I'm betting when the rule was made, Canadians weren't allowed on that frequency, at all.  So the FCC's rule appears to be in need of an update.  Just like their website and pricing.  So they should at least be saying now that you can use up to 2 watts above the line, or move the line further north.  Or eliminate it altogether.  I'm sure if they did address it, they could work something out that would be agreeable with our friends in the Great White North.

It think FCC should revisit it.  But I'm not holding my breath that they will do that anytime soon. But hey, I'll start by filing a request to revisit it. It can't hurt.  The worst case is they ignore it.  But if enough people made the suggestion/request, maybe they'll eventually get around to it.

So I'll go with 19 except on the rare occasion I cross Line A.  I've never advocated ignoring the rule.  I only pointed out that Canadians are not banned from those channels.  So the rule has a flaw that it probably did not have when it was enacted.

 

 

[AdmiralCochrane]

The licensing fee has been authorized to change for a year, it has NOT CHANGED.  Its not going to change until they have the software in place to charge for ham licensing, upgrades and vanity call signs.   Glad I did my ham license upgrade before the fee was initiated. 

[DanW]

1 minute ago, AdmiralCochrane said:

The licensing fee has been authorized to change for a year, it has NOT CHANGED.  Its not going to change until they have the software in place to charge for ham licensing, upgrades and vanity call signs.   Glad I did my ham license upgrade before the fee was initiated. 

Yep, and that drives home the fact they are SLOW.  I don't think anyone can find many examples of the FCC moving quickly on anything other than maybe a serious crime being committed.  (At least I hope they'd move quickly on something like that.)

They really are almost encouraging rule breaking.  There are people waiting for the fee to drop and in the meantime have purchased radios.  I'd bet a dollar that many have gone ahead and transmitted on them, in their own minds justifying it by their intent to buy the license when the fee drops.

[MichaelLAX]

On 1/9/2022 at 6:04 AM, gortex2 said:

I have traveled down the highway and seen HAMs with huge stickers "monitoring 520" or similar. I'll switch over and never hear a peep.

You have a complete misunderstanding of the function of the "monitoring 520" sticker (presumably 146.52, the national simplex calling frequency for 2 meters):

He is telling YOU that if you want to start a conversation with him, shout out to him on 146.52!

The amount of chatter and/or peeps on that frequency at any particular time is irrelevant.

[gortex2]

My point was it never happens. People dont just drive by and go "oh hey I can talk to this guy/gal". I followed a van for hours yesterday with that sticker. Not once did I hear anyone pop up on 520 and call for anyone. Maybe its a west coast thing that happens but on the east coast all of the calling channels or travel channels are always like crickets. I hear more hunters on 2 meter that I hear actual hams. And none of them have licenses. But at least they aren't on GMRS. 

[tweiss3]

53 minutes ago, gortex2 said:

My point was it never happens. People dont just drive by and go "oh hey I can talk to this guy/gal". I followed a van for hours yesterday with that sticker. Not once did I hear anyone pop up on 520 and call for anyone. Maybe its a west coast thing that happens but on the east coast all of the calling channels or travel channels are always like crickets. I hear more hunters on 2 meter that I hear actual hams. And none of them have licenses. But at least they aren't on GMRS. 

I do it all the time. And not just by the bumper sticker, I do it via APRS as well, and I can call them out via call sign directly then, as I also have a distance between me and them too.

[SteveShannon]

15 hours ago, DanW said:

Some good points there.  

Remember, their licensing fee has been $35 for a year but their website says $70 and they still charge $70.  They are VERY slow to respond to changing conditions.  So if the FCC rule is no channel 19 use at all, even at low power, above line A, then it is clear they are already wrong and out of date.  I'm betting when the rule was made, Canadians weren't allowed on that frequency, at all.  So the FCC's rule appears to be in need of an update.  Just like their website and pricing.  So they should at least be saying now that you can use up to 2 watts above the line, or move the line further north.  Or eliminate it altogether.  I'm sure if they did address it, they could work something out that would be agreeable with our friends in the Great White North.

It think FCC should revisit it.  But I'm not holding my breath that they will do that anytime soon. But hey, I'll start by filing a request to revisit it. It can't hurt.  The worst case is they ignore it.  But if enough people made the suggestion/request, maybe they'll eventually get around to it.

So I'll go with 19 except on the rare occasion I cross Line A.  I've never advocated ignoring the rule.  I only pointed out that Canadians are not banned from those channels.  So the rule has a flaw that it probably did not have when it was enacted.

 

 

The rule for Line A is required of the FCC by a treaty between the USA and Canada, not by lack of motivation by the FCC.  Until Canada and the USA amend the treaty the FCC cannot change the rule. 

[marcspaz]

@gortex2  I think it has a lot to do with were you are and if you stimulate the traffic or not.  In my experience, people meet there and then move to another frequency to leave the calling frequency open.  Since VHF is still a LOS, you may just be missing the traffic if it is out there.

 

I live near Interstate 95 in the DC metro area.  I monitor with my base while working during the day and there is always traffic on 146.520, 147.525 and 446.000.  They are well used by the locals and travelers who are making their way north or south and looking to chat. 

 

I even do it myself.  Recently, I was driving from DC to New England, alone.  The bands sounded dead, but during the day every time I called out on 520 announcing I was traveling through and looking for a contact, someone got back to me. 

 

One of the longest 2m contacts I had with a stranger was while I was heading north.  I was just getting on the Cross Bronx and called out.  Some guy in CT on a mountain top heard me and responded.  I chatted with him all the way to RI.  As we chatted, we had several other people hop in and out of the conversation too.

 

I'm headed to New England this Saturday.  I'm going to be using 20m and 2m for company since I will be driving alone.  Between the two, I typically have company the whole trip.

[BoxCar]

2 hours ago, Sshannon said:

The rule for Line A is required of the FCC by a treaty between the USA and Canada, not by lack of motivation by the FCC.  Until Canada and the USA amend the treaty the FCC cannot change the rule. 

BINGO! You got it. As it is a treaty it has to go through the Congress Critters in the Senate who will do everything in their power to politicize it. 

[MichaelLAX]

4 hours ago, gortex2 said:

My point was it never happens. People dont just drive by and go "oh hey I can talk to this guy/gal". I followed a van for hours yesterday with that sticker. Not once did I hear anyone pop up on 520 and call for anyone. Maybe its a west coast thing that happens but on the east coast all of the calling channels or travel channels are always like crickets. I hear more hunters on 2 meter that I hear actual hams. And none of them have licenses. But at least they aren't on GMRS. 

That's why they invented the word: Anecdotal

AND:

"Never say Never!" ("not once") -- It's SO easy to disprove! @tweiss3and @marcspaz 

[MichaelLAX]

31 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

BINGO! You got it. As it is a treaty it has to go through the Congress Critters in the Senate who will do everything in their power to politicize it. 

I'm shocked to discover POLITICS going on among Politicians!