Pennsylvania people.. you need to take action now

[kidphc]

Pennsylvania state senate passed a bill to disallow mobile usage. Some wording was changed to disallow mobile radio usage aimed at amateur radio.

 

If the governor signs this bill with the wording. You as a gmrs/cb user will not be able to legally use your mobile radio on the road. This excludes public safety and commercial operators like taxi cabs.

 

REDDIT POST with the information.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/s/TuKdon2Df3

 

 

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[Hoppyjr]

Typical government overreach from people who desire complete control of the population.

It would be nice if the citizens would wake up and stop electing actual tyrants.

Actions > Words

[Guest]

Sooo I won’t be able to read the news paper check sports stats  and talk on the radio all at the same time?   I was a school bus driver and dispatcher for a many years.  If you had any idea how dangerous that was to have professional drivers talking in the radio and driving you would want this to pass.  I totally agree with not being allowed to use your radio while  driving.   I hope it passes.  People can’t drive let alone use a radio and drive.   Now if all people would drive like normal and every one would slow down and pay attention then great but with all the new generation of selfish morons behind the wheel all in a huge hurry to go no where I agree.  I think cell phones should be required to go in the trunk,  not even passengers.   Now I also don’t think this will help stop or slow down accidents at all. 

[WRQC527]

57 minutes ago, kidphc said:

 

Pennsylvania state senate passed a bill to disallow mobile usage. Some wording was changed to disallow mobile radio usage aimed at amateur radio.

 

If the governor signs this bill with the wording. You as a gmrs/cb user will not be able to legally use your mobile radio on the road. This excludes public safety and commercial operators like taxi cabs.

 

REDDIT POST with the information.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/s/TuKdon2Df3

 

 

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Coconino County in Arizona tried this about ten years ago. Enough amateur radio operators and truckers got together and pushed to eventually get the law changed to exempt mobile radios. Also, here in California, we've been dealing with hands-free laws that are vague about mobile radios and loosely-interpreted by law enforcement, and at one point a memo was issued to the California Highway Patrol that said mounted radios with wired hand microphones are not considered wireless devices. It's all very convoluted across the country, and even from one city or county to another. But in the 12 years I've been an amateur radio operator, I've never had law enforcement give me a second (or first) look when I'm using my radios, even when they're right next to or behind me. Only one friend of mine was pulled over, and the officer let him go when he realized it was a ham radio micophone he was holding.

[SvenMarbles]

That’s ridiculous. Please don’t be a state to set this precedent..

[PRadio]

3 hours ago, WRXP381 said:

Sooo I won’t be able to read the news paper check sports stats  and talk on the radio all at the same time?   I was a school bus driver and dispatcher for a many years.  If you had any idea how dangerous that was to have professional drivers talking in the radio and driving you would want this to pass.  I totally agree with not being allowed to use your radio while  driving.   I hope it passes.  People can’t drive let alone use a radio and drive.   Now if all people would drive like normal and every one would slow down and pay attention then great but with all the new generation of selfish morons behind the wheel all in a huge hurry to go no where I agree.  I think cell phones should be required to go in the trunk,  not even passengers.   Now I also don’t think this will help stop or slow down accidents at all. 

No, people want to be able to talk into a mic, and no, we don't want it to pass. 

[WRQC527]

I'm convinced that the reason some people want this kind of thing to pass is that they refuse to differentiate between a radio that doesn't take your eyes off the road and a smart phone that requires you to often look away and type. Therefore, their logic is "If I can't use my device, no one can." Followed immediately by "nerny nerny nerny".

[Hoppyjr]

I'm convinced that the reason some people want this kind of thing to pass is that they refuse to differentiate between a radio that doesn't take your eyes off the road and a smart phone that requires you to often look away and type. Therefore, their logic is "If I can't use my device, no one can." Followed immediately by "nerny nerny nerny".

The same people tend to like ridiculous gun laws that don’t actually reduce crime. Those people likely don’t own radios or guns, so they don’t care. They want government to make it all better. Safer. They also lack enough intelligence to understand they are willfully and incrementally giving up their freedom.

[WRXB215]

@Hoppyjr sadly, you are right.

[marcspaz]

9 hours ago, WRXP381 said:

Sooo I won’t be able to read the news paper check sports stats  and talk on the radio all at the same time?   I was a school bus driver and dispatcher for a many years.  If you had any idea how dangerous that was to have professional drivers talking in the radio and driving you would want this to pass.  I totally agree with not being allowed to use your radio while  driving.   I hope it passes.  People can’t drive let alone use a radio and drive.   Now if all people would drive like normal and every one would slow down and pay attention then great but with all the new generation of selfish morons behind the wheel all in a huge hurry to go no where I agree.  I think cell phones should be required to go in the trunk,  not even passengers.   Now I also don’t think this will help stop or slow down accidents at all. 

 

 

I have to disagree with using a mobile radio being dangerous when driving. I am unaware of a single study that supports the claim. There are plenty of studies that show drivers adjusting their AM/FM/Sat radios are in the top 3 causes of distracted driving, but nothing about 2-way radio. 

 

I would think it's no different then talking to a passenger. The next step from laws like this is no entertainment radio, no navigation, no talking to passengers. It's stupid and tyrannical. Just hold people accountable for distracted driving instead of naming and outlaw every possible distraction. 

[SvenMarbles]

People really need to wake up and start checking our governments. Let me ask this,.. Was there some sort of insane uptick in ham radio related driving accidents? I'm going to speculate that there wasn't... So why is it that the state of Pennsylvania feels compelled to just decide to impose a seemingly punitive law upon the people? I feel like we're just too many generations of people removed from the times when people conceptualized and understood the proper dynamic of government and the citizenry who ALLOW it. We're not just supposed to be a ruled people. We're not supposed to just live and accept the rules that mom and dad politicians make for us. These sorts of laws for "the good of public safety" should generally be a consensus (more people than not) agreement by the citizenry and the governing bodies that we both fund and give/entrust the authority to govern with. Any time some thing of this type comes about, ask yourself this question. "If this issue went to referendum, would The People sign off and agree to this?'. If you really feel like that's a no, then the government are acting as criminals and intervention is necessary.

[Raybestos]

Marc and Sven, great comments!  I ran out of upvotes but will get to you guys, tomorrow!  I am convinced that the average citizens/voters in our country are little more than literal sheep, easily led and easily pushed; by politicians, media, and others, with cliche's, sound bites, and zero critical thinking.  When I was a cop, back in the mid and late 2000's, there was a big push to get South Carolina a "cell phone law" similar to the abomination that Georgia now suffers under.  I believe it has to be hands-free and if you touch it more than once, they can cite you, or similar lunacy.  Everywhere I went, convenience store clerks, customers, and others would say "we need a cell phone law" (said in a smarmy, whiney voice).  I always replied, "no we don't".  I mentioned that for every discourteous or dangerous maneuver that one might do on the roadway, there was an existing statute in the SC Code of Laws which could be brought to bear on the driver who committed that act.  All it takes, I noted, is cops familiarizing themselves with the statutes already available to them and utilizing them.  Move over into someone's lane and hit or almost hit them; there's a statute for that.  Run a red light; there's a statute for that.  Sit in the middle of the road yakking on the phone or texting after the light turns green; there's a statute for that.  When I saw someone doing something stupid like the above, I stopped them and ticketed them.  I also let them know, when applicable, that it appeared that the reason for the violation, and therefore the ticket, seemed to be that they were engrossed in their cell phone.  I advised them to pay better attention to the road.

   Some people can multi-task well.  Some cannot.  I never got the point of creating another law, penalizing people for what they "might" do wrong instead of just going after the ones who are doing wrong.  Who is the greater danger to the public, the guy or gal driving, with a phone to their ear, obeying all traffic laws and operating their vehicle in a competent manner, or the one who veers into an adjacent lane for whatever reason, including adjusting the climate control, adjusting their AM-FM radio, adjusting their underwear, or whatever?  Target the ones actually creating the hazard, not the ones who "might" do something wrong.  This is about as ludicrous as most gun laws.  They operate under the perception that because you are wearing a gun, you somehow will not be able to constrain yourself from committing a crime with it.  Gun laws only impede the law abiding, the very people who are not the problem.  Criminals, being criminals, are mostly unimpeded by gun laws.

A year or two ago, I read an article where some honcho in the SC Highway Patrol was whining that our current texting law was too difficult for his Troopers to enforce and that we needed something closer to what Georgia has.  I remember thinking that he either needed better Troopers or needed to re-train the ones he had.  Instead of creating a new class of violator (to enhance revenue collection, perhaps?) go after the ones who are making dangerous maneuvers on the road.  I mean, if talking on a cell phone is THAT dangerous, you won't have to follow them far before they commit a ticket able violation, right?

 

Finally, I will leave you with a quote my late maternal grandfather used to regularly repeat.  He was right.

"The more laws a society has, the less justice"

Marcus Tullius Cicero

 

[WRQI663]

I contacted my PA rep and he said he voted no on SB37......now it is up to the governor to sign or not. Is it for 'safety' or money?

The worse thing that ever happened when I was talking to a mobile station was "oh, I missed my exit"

Eating a burrito is more distracting, how about being in a car with 2 or 3 kids fooling around.

Revenue generation IS NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT (is there not real crime to solve?)

Let 'em legalize weed and tax the crap out of the dopers

[tweiss3]

This will be annoying when I have to travel there. Another reason why I wish Kenwood didn't discontinue the KCT73/72, which would be completely "handsfree". I hope it gets shot down. I know there are other exceptions beyond ham in other states. I think the real problem is a few highly urban cities have issues with all laws being followed, yet they actually account for less than 5% of the state area.

[Davichko5650]

I copies this out of the senate bill: according to this wording - Hams are actually not included as it states that a "wireless communications device does not include:

 

(4)  A MOBILE OR HANDHELD RADIO BEING USED BY A PERSON WITH AN AMATEUR RADIO STATION LICENSE ISSUED BY THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION;

Got this from the bill dated 5-6-24.  

[Davichko5650]

5 minutes ago, Davichko5650 said:

I copies this out of the senate bill: according to this wording - Hams are actually not included as it states that a "wireless communications device does not include:

 

(4)  A MOBILE OR HANDHELD RADIO BEING USED BY A PERSON WITH AN AMATEUR RADIO STATION LICENSE ISSUED BY THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION;

Got this from the bill dated 5-6-24.  

here's the link to see the entire bill:

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=PDF&sessYr=2023&sessInd=0&billBody=S&billTyp=B&billNbr=0037&pn=1588

[WQAI363]

On 4/27/2024 at 10:50 AM, kidphc said:

 

Pennsylvania state senate passed a bill to disallow mobile usage. Some wording was changed to disallow mobile radio usage aimed at amateur radio.

 

If the governor signs this bill with the wording. You as a gmrs/cb user will not be able to legally use your mobile radio on the road. This excludes public safety and commercial operators like taxi cabs.

 

REDDIT POST with the information.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/s/TuKdon2Df3

 

 

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

If I were licensed Pennsylvania driver and had a two-way radio inside my vehicle, I would continue to use my two-way radio as long as I endanger my safety or the safety of my fellow motorists. Besides, a STATE TROOPER or Local LEA need more than just talking on a two-way radio while in moving to warrant a traffic stop. Officers would need other reasons to stop a vehicle. However, if I was pulled for only using my radio, I would insist that the Officer would write out two citations, one for me and one for them. Don't Get Me Wrong, I have great respect the job that LEOs signed onto do every day, but they use two-way radios too and not just for Law Enforcement Operations.  There are a few Small or Mid-Size Town nationwide where Officers have been known to chit-chat among their selves on their talk around channels like how a CB radio would be used.  

 

[kidphc]

here's the link to see the entire bill:
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=PDF&sessYr=2023&sessInd=0&billBody=S&billTyp=B&billNbr=0037&pn=1588

For whatever reason I haven't been able to open thar link since day one.

I normally like to review the legislation before posting. If I was an error sorry for posting the thread.

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[Davichko5650]

4 minutes ago, kidphc said:

For whatever reason I haven't been able to open thar link since day one.

I normally like to review the legislation before posting. If I was an error sorry for posting the thread.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 

Might be my crappy cut & paste or some other thing.  But easy enough to find online I would think. Basically exempts Hams, School bus drivers and commercial drivers covered under the 49 CFR regs.  Nothing I could see excluding GMRS or other services though. Good news is I don't plan on driving to or through PA in the near or far future. Bad news is, other clown in other state legislatures may pick up this ball and run with it.  The MN law passed a couple years back exempted two way radios...

[kidphc]

Might be my crappy cut & paste or some other thing.  But easy enough to find online I would think. Basically exempts Hams, School bus drivers and commercial drivers covered under the 49 CFR regs.  Nothing I could see excluding GMRS or other services though. Good news is I don't plan on driving to or through PA in the near or far future. Bad news is, other clown in other state legislatures may pick up this ball and run with it.  The MN law passed a couple years back exempted two way radios...

Most of the legislation across the US, excerpts 2 way radios.

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[DONE]

If it passes without the HAM / GMRS exemption, the FCC / federal government will end up involved and force the law to be amended to have an exemption. 

The federal government issues the license and therefore the access and right to communicate on specific frequencies or radio services.  These laws and regulations attempt to over rule those rights, and the FCC / federal government doesn't typically tolerate that.  Of  course the only tool that the FCC has to deal with it is fines.  But about the time they hit the Commonwealth of PA with a ten million dollar fine, they will get the picture. 

Personally I feel that the federal government needs to start going after the specific legislators that write and sign these bills that attempt to usurp the federal regulations that exist with fines and jail time.  Many years ago, there was a decision made about the ownership of a certain commodity of the time.  Some states allowed the ownership of that commodity while others did not.  It was decided that the ownership was illegal across all of the United States and a number of individual states attempted to leave the country, and we ended up with the bloodiest war in this nations history.  

I bring this up because the 13th amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America abolished the ownership of people.  And the Civil War while about slavery in a way, was really a fight about states rights to create their own laws concerning things that the federal government had ruled on and were the law of the land.  And as brought up elsewhere, the Second Amendment grants us rights to gun ownership.  Yet there are a number of states that significantly limit that right. 

While ownership and operation of radio equipment isn't as significant as the right to own guns, or not own people, it's still controlled at a federal level and as such, states shouldn't be creating regulations or laws that limit the ownership or use of it.

[kidphc]

If it passes without the HAM / GMRS exemption, the FCC / federal government will end up involved and force the law to be amended to have an exemption. 
The federal government issues the license and therefore the access and right to communicate on specific frequencies or radio services.  These laws and regulations attempt to over rule those rights, and the FCC / federal government doesn't typically tolerate that.  Of  course the only tool that the FCC has to deal with it is fines.  But about the time they hit the Commonwealth of PA with a ten million dollar fine, they will get the picture. 
Personally I feel that the federal government needs to start going after the specific legislators that write and sign these bills that attempt to usurp the federal regulations that exist with fines and jail time.  Many years ago, there was a decision made about the ownership of a certain commodity of the time.  Some states allowed the ownership of that commodity while others did not.  It was decided that the ownership was illegal across all of the United States and a number of individual states attempted to leave the country, and we ended up with the bloodiest war in this nations history.  
I bring this up because the 13th amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America abolished the ownership of people.  And the Civil War while about slavery in a way, was really a fight about states rights to create their own laws concerning things that the federal government had ruled on and were the law of the land.  And as brought up elsewhere, the Second Amendment grants us rights to gun ownership.  Yet there are a number of states that significantly limit that right. 
While ownership and operation of radio equipment isn't as significant as the right to own guns, or not own people, it's still controlled at a federal level and as such, states shouldn't be creating regulations or laws that limit the ownership or use of it.

I get that. Around here marijuana is legal. Although, it was never legalized federally. Which happens to have a seat in a city that legalized it...lol

Same crap happens with guns here in Montgomery County, MD. Things that were straight up deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, in NY are put into law in the county i live in. But then again I am use to the people here calling in because there was an assault rifle on the hood of a jeep. No amount of explaining that it was a jack was going to make it pass the air around her head. Felt bad for the guy as had to pull the jack off his hood to defuse the situation.

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[DONE]

4 hours ago, kidphc said:

I get that. Around here marijuana is legal. Although, it was never legalized federally. Which happens to have a seat in a city that legalized it...lol

Same crap happens with guns here in Montgomery County, MD. Things that were straight up deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, in NY are put into law in the county i live in. But then again I am use to the people here calling in because there was an assault rifle on the hood of a jeep. No amount of explaining that it was a jack was going to make it pass the air around her head. Felt bad for the guy as had to pull the jack off his hood to defuse the situation.

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And that is when you put your arms out and tell the responding officers to arrest you for having an assault rifle.  Let them bring a hi-lift jack into the court room as evidence and then DEMAND they be arrested for being that stupid.  Sue the dumb bitch for calling the cops to begin with and made damn sure you have the jack she thought was a weapon in the court room when you sue her. 

This is why I live where I live.  We don't have this sort of bullshit here and I refuse to move to other places where they do. 

Police around here would tell her to shut the F up and if she refused to do so, SHE would be arrested, not the owner of a hi-lift jack. 

I am telling you right now.  These people are being trained to spool people up.  The people responsible for allowing people to continue to be this damned stupid are looking for a violent uprising from the people with common sense because they are the biggest threat to them taking over and running things.  All this crap that we are seeing on a day to day basis where people get more and more off the reservation isn't happening by chance.  And until people figure this out, find the root of the movement and call them out with proof it's happening, it's going to continue until they figure out the right buttons to push and all hell breaks loose.  Problem is that when that happens it will be too late.  The people with common sense and a sense of basic morality will be labeled as dangerous and enemies of the state.  And if there is a gun even present, used or not, it will be the reason to ban all firearms and start the collection of them.

 

[kidphc]

And that is when you put your arms out and tell the responding officers to arrest you for having an assault rifle.  Let them bring a hi-lift jack into the court room as evidence and then DEMAND they be arrested for being that stupid.  Sue the dumb bitch for calling the cops to begin with and made damn sure you have the jack she thought was a weapon in the court room when you sue her. 
This is why I live where I live.  We don't have this sort of bullshit here and I refuse to move to other places where they do. 
Police around here would tell her to shut the F up and if she refused to do so, SHE would be arrested, not the owner of a hi-lift jack. 
I am telling you right now.  These people are being trained to spool people up.  The people responsible for allowing people to continue to be this damned stupid are looking for a violent uprising from the people with common sense because they are the biggest threat to them taking over and running things.  All this crap that we are seeing on a day to day basis where people get more and more off the reservation isn't happening by chance.  And until people figure this out, find the root of the movement and call them out with proof it's happening, it's going to continue until they figure out the right buttons to push and all hell breaks loose.  Problem is that when that happens it will be too late.  The people with common sense and a sense of basic morality will be labeled as dangerous and enemies of the state.  And if there is a gun even present, used or not, it will be the reason to ban all firearms and start the collection of them.
 

Off topic, but need to start with the media.

Everything semi, full auto, belt fed, etc is an assault rifle, as long as it's black and has a pistol grip.

Point being, if we do nothing we lose what we have.

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[PRadio]

The latest bill that has now passed, includes the following after a definition of

"interactive wireless communications device"

 

 

The bill can be read here: https://legiscan.com/PA/text/SB37/2023