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I own/have used all of these.. The short answer is - all of them can transmit the same number of fars, but: The Midlands are 'simple' and great if you just want a radio in your vehicle (or as a base) to talk to other GMRS radios - Both the 400 and 500 can do wideband - but to enable wideband on the 400 you need a computer, cable, and the software. On the 500 you can do it very easily on the radio - (FYI- you DO want wideband on a GMRS radio).. They are also (very) limited in how many repeaters you can program them for, and (iirc) they cannot monitor/listen to any non-GMRS frequencies except maybe NOAA channels.. All these limitations make for VERY simple, VERY easy to use radios. The Midlands also come with everything you need to get up and running, right in the box (antenna & "coax"). The antenna and coax arent the best, but, they do work surprisingly well, and work plenty good enough for someone that needs a simple "just want to talk in the car" type radio - so be wary of those telling you "it's junk" or "costs way to much" -Obviously this type of radio is not intended for them and they can't comprehend the value of "simple". The KG-1000G is wide-band out of the box, and is a much more complicated radio. its great if you want to use a lot of repeaters, scan non-GMRS frequencies, etc - the KG-1000G 'does more', but, its more complicated to learn/use.. Not "difficult", but, more. The KG1000G is also a "superheterodyne" radio, which means the guts are a bit better quality than the Midlands - they may receive a bit better and may ignore off-frequency noise a bit better. With the KG1000G You will also need to purchase an antenna and coax. Be wary of those telling you "its just cheap chinese junk!!" - When they tell you that, ask them for the data that supports their opinion, and then ask them which "not made in China, non-junk FCC Part 95e GMRS radio" they recommend instead.

Results are expected: half-wave antenna performed better in a situation with questionable or non-existing ground plane. I would go with half-wave. SWR is better, efficiency is better, that was confirmed by test in the field. Half-wave antennas do not require ground plane and [almost] not affected if you have a ground plane nearby. But if you are satisfied with quarter-wave, it's all good. With regards to quarter-wave vs half-wave for power and efficiency: quarter-wave with good ground plane is identical to half-wave with no ground plane.

This would be a good one https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/shop-all/mobile-antennas/300-512-mhz-uhf/no-ground-plane-antennas/3230-laird-connectivity-bb4502n-detail

Reading is one thing, understanding is another, having personal experience is another another, and working in the industry is a different plane alltogether. Oh yeah! Talking trash on the interwebs is fun!

FCC calls them channels, so I do, too. § 95.1763 GMRS channels., (c): "467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels."... "The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz. "

Here's some other options: Amazon.com: Wishring Re-02 Mobile Antenna Ground Uhf-f 10-1300mhz for Car Radio Motorola Icom : Electronics Amazon.com: TRAM(R) 1192 Pre-Tuned 150-154 VHF / 450-470 MHz UHF Dual-Band Land Mobile Glass Mount Antenna, Black : Electronics

@HCCFCA The Tram 1174 (taller of the two) is a half wave antenna and should work fine with the suction cup mount. The 1126B (shorter of the two) will require a ground plane. That means you are going to need to buy a ground plane kit or you are back to a mag mount or lip mount for the shorter antenna. As I mentioned earlier, you may have some luck flipping the upper bracket 180 degrees and getting the antenna over and as close to the roof as possible.

I agree with @marcspaz, you need a half wave antenna if you don't have a direct RF ground.

Hey folks. I have had a small group of people ask me about tones and GMRS/FRS basics in the past week. I figured I would take one of the conversations here and share it for people new to the service. Hopefully it will help you understand Private Lines, Privacy Tones, sub-channels, tones and squelching methods, in general. I am only covering the two most popular in GMRS and FRS, but there are many others available as you move into different radio services and technology. Before we get into what all that stuff is, lets talk about why it exists. Per NOAA and the US Census Bureau, the lower 48 states is approximately 3.1 million square miles. Also, 83% of Americans live on 10% of the total available square miles and 40% of all US citizens live on the east and west coast in counties touching oceans. Following this logic, about 500,000+ licensed and unlicensed operators (estimated by me) are sharing FRS and GMRS radio space, in roughly 310,000 square miles. So, how does 500,000 people in close proximity, sharing 22 channels, all use their radios at the same time without interfering with each other? Motorola brings you PL tones! Lets get this out of the way... regardless of what the manufacturers may tell you or how they label their products, there is no privacy. Period. Private Lines (PL), Privacy Tones, Sub-channels and any other name for the same service, does not stop people from hearing you, it stops you from hearing them. I know... seems like a day in Opposite World, but that's how it works. I suppose the first thing to do is explain what the PL tones really are, what the more common types are and what each of them do. A traditional squelch is a signal level squelch. Meaning, no audio will come out of the speaker until a strong enough signal is received. Then there are also user squelch types. With analog radios, the most common type of user squelch uses encoding called Continuous Tone-Coded Squelch System or CTCSS. This feature is defined as being used to reduce the annoyance of listening to other users on a shared two-way radio channel. So, as mentioned above, its not that you as a person speaking have any type of privacy, but rather you don't have to listen to everyone on the same frequency. Hopefully the third time is a charm. Many GMRS and FRS radios only have simple CTCSS functions called Tone Squelch, often displayed as TSQL on the screen when enabled. This means two things. One is, regardless of what you do with your squelch knob or set your RF squelch to, no audio will come out of the speaker unless the tone you selected is embedded in the signal you are receiving. The other thing it does is, when you transmit, what ever tone frequency you have programed gets transmitted with/in your signal to unlock or open the squelch of other radios configured the same way. There is another method of CTCSS called "split tone". This means that you can use one tone when you transmit and another for your receive. This comes in handy when repeater owners are trying to limit who can access the repeater, as higher cost radios typically have split tone capability, compared to poorly built and inexpensive radios that would be problematic on a repeater do not. Also, this makes it a bit more difficult to "discover" the input tone by using scanning tools. Another function of split tone CTCSS is that you can also set your radio to transmit a tone to unlock a repeater or other radio, but leave your receive tone set to null (nothing). When this mode is enabled, there is typically a display on the radio that either reads TN or TONE. That means you can bring up a repeater or unlock a radio squelch, but also hear everyone else regardless of what tones they are running, if any at all. This is actually a great feature for GMRS radios since Repeater Channels share FRS frequencies and GMRS simplex frequencies. So you can tell if the frequency is in use as well as being able to talk to others who many not be using the repeater. CTCSS is an analog squelching system. There is also a digital squelching system called Digital-Code Squelch or DCS. It has similar use cases as CTCSS, but it is sending digitally embedded numeric codes instead of a sub-audible tone. I apologize in advance, but this next portion may get a little confusing. If you have questions, just ask and myself or one of the other knowledgeable members will be able to help. All of the numbers below are simply random samples I selected for example. Last I checked, there are 38 standard tones and an additional 13 expanded tones (not available on every radio) for a total possible 51 tones and 83 DCS codes. Along with the use examples above, you can get creative with DCS, because we are dealing with binary numbers instead of a tone. You can have the numbers used in a bunch of different combinations. For example, the number 411 in binary is 00110100 00110001 00110001. The reverse of this would be 11001011 11001011 11001110. So we are swapping the meaning of a 1 and a 0. So the combinations could be as follows: Normal-Normal = Transmit sends 411 and your radio squelch only opens when it receives 411 in the standard format 00110100 00110001 00110001. Reverse-Reverse = Transmit sends 411 reversed (or bit swapped) and your radio squelch only opens when it receives 411 reversed, meaning 11001011 11001011 11001110. Normal-Reverse = Transmit sends 411 standard binary format and your radio squelch only opens when it receives 411 in a reversed binary format. Reverse-Normal = Transmit sends 411 in a reversed binary format and your radio squelch only opens when it receives 411 in a standard format. Unfortunately, I am unaware of any radio's that have a DCS option to leave your user squelch open while transmitting a DCS code. If DCS is enabled, you cannot hear anyone else unless they are using the same DCS number and binary combination. CTCSS tones can also be "reversed". CTCSS tones, since its analog, we have a phase reversal, often called "reverse burst" when it is only reversed at the end of the transmission. (Something to Google in your spare time.) On some high-end radios, squelching can get really exotic. You may be able to create your own custom tone instead of using one of the standard tones. You may also be able to combine CTCSS tones and DCS codes. For example: User-CTCSS = Transmit 2600Hz tone, squelch opens with 2600Hz tone. (random number example) T-DCS = Transmit 141.3 tone, squelch opens with 411 code. DCS-T = Transmit 411 code, squelch opens with 141.3 tone. T-rDCS = Transmit 141.3 tone, squelch opens with 411 bit swapped code. rDCS-T = Transmit 411 bit swapped code, squelch opens with 141.3 tone. Now, here is the kind of disappointing part. Some manufactures try to make their equipment sound like something its not. They will use things like there own custom number code to identify a traditional CTCSS code. For example, Midland uses code number 22 (also known as a sub-channel) to indicate the tone 141.3. This makes coordination on tone selection a bit cumbersome between some brands. It also means that if your radio doesn't display the actual CTCSS tone or DCS code, you need to keep your owner's manual handy for reference. So... I don't know if that explanation made things better or worse. LOL Anyway, some companies use verbiage like "Privacy Tones" which adds to the confusion for some people. If you are using a true full CTCSS, it just means you are limited to whom you can hear, but everyone can still hear you. The examples I provided above for DCS are not what actually gets transmitted, but rather a conceptual process to help understand at a very basic level of what occurs, simply to understand the difference. DCS adds a 134.4 bps bitstream to the transmitted audio. To move past concept to the weeds, this video does a great job.

This is a reason why trunking in various forms, as well as additional waveforms have been created. Imagine this happening in a war zone where many of the participants have two or three radios all trying to communicate within the same spectrum. It can be like having hundreds of GMRS radios operating in an area with all the receivers set for CSQ. Then you add some with PL tones, and have your experience. However, there is still RF, on frequency. This can have a negative effect when you get a lot of users in close proximity, strongest radio usually wins. Then with newer digital waveforms and encryption (military radios) some can suppress their carriers into the noise floor, frequency hop, and use different modulation to act like different types of PL tones to clean up the mess a bit. Some of this technology is also experienced in commercial radio, Motorola Trbo series with RAS keys, and Basic Pricavy settings for example. But, in simple terms, strongest signal usually wins (except in P25, where a cheap low power Baofeng can knock out a site, due to the term "assured [voice] communications").

OffroaderX has detailed the differences between the radios so he choice is yours. Personally, I would not use the Midlands as GMRS sparked me going into ham radio and my GMRS radio gave me the ability to explore what was available locally on the ham VHF and UHF channels. If you think there is the possibility you would want to go farther, then the choice is pretty clear. The limitations of the Midland radios will also come forward if you plan on doing some traveling.

@HCCFCA, the Tram 1174 is a half wave antenna and the bare minimum for an antenna with no ground plane. The 1126B is a quarter wave and requires a ground plane. Based on the pictures you shared, you would need to move the suction cup mount closer to the roof line, center the mount on the window's leading edge and rotate the upper potion that holds the antenna 180 degrees in the mount... making it so the 1126B antenna is over the roof. That may improve the SWR, but the quarter wave will never work as good as the half wave in that type of mount. Even if you put the suction cup on the roof instead of the glass, I think that mount is entirely too tall for a quarter wave antenna. The only other option would be to buy or make an NMO UHF ground plane kit/adapter.

As a software developer, many hire me as the "expert". But, I always run into this very scenario where the guy at the top knows better. It's like hiring a lawyer, then questioning the entire process and ending up in jail. In our case, it's not jail, just other people's money wasted.

I paid by the foot from Primus in Morris, IL. It's $4.74/foot and I bought 280' of it for the transmitter antenna I had installed. I borrowed my dads car trailer to get it (See the aforementioned website, it has a pic of the feedline in the pictures section). Yes, this is a 110W repeater tuned down to 50W. Days... You mean years. This repeater *could* do 110W for years on end with zero issues based on the experts that know more about them than myself. Not sure what assumptions were being made (if any), but I want to iterate that I *DO PAY MONTHLY RENT* for this tower. It's FAR from free. I also had to sign a lease agreement and carry a 2 million dollar insurance policy. This isn't some rinky-dink old abandoned tower which I'm getting for free. I'm a paying customer to the tower owner just like anyone else. As such there is no way I can just be "booted" from the site like others have mentioned. Yes, I'm aware of those things happening but will not happen here as a paying customer lol. As far as the site, there is a guy that checks the site on a yearly basis for issues/clean up and maintenance. I can assure you that if this repeater was causing problems for others there, or if another repeater there was causing issues for me that matter, that won't last too long. The offending machine would have to be repaired/replaced/fixed because that would never fly lol. To take that a step further, it's *NOT* easy to get onto a site like this either. It took nearly a year of back and forth to make this happen and a site survey was done prior to me going on the site to make sure what I was putting in wouldn't cause issues. You can check the history of everything here as well. You can read from the bottom up to see the time-line starting on 4/30/2020: https://mygmrs.com/repeater/3838 I hope this helps add some clarification.

None of that sounds right at all. A VEC is an Amateur Radio Volunteer Examiner Coordinator and has nothing to do with repeaters. The ARRL doesn't coordinate any repeaters. If the local amateur radio repeater coordinator says an area is saturated and won't coordinate any new repeater pairs in your area, you can still put up an uncoordinated repeater. You just have no bargaining chips if your uncoordinated repeater has interference from a coordinated repeater. And, still, none of any of that is an impact on GMRS because NO ONE coordinates GMRS repeaters. Not the FCC, not the ARRL, not VEC's, not coordinator agencies such as TMARC.

Or if you set NO receive tone, you can hear them.

I have a tailgate mount at fender level (about 3 inches from the fender) on my Jeep using a MXTA26 antenna- the tip reaches about 1 inch above the roof line. Using this setup with both my KG-1000G and Motorola XTL5000 has worked great - hitting repeaters 30, 50, 70 miles away and talking with other vehicles up to 20 miles away. Be wary of "some people" that will try to grossly overcomplicate it: Yes, it would work better on the roof, but with my fender/tailgate mount I am able to have many fars.

Very near to my experience on/off road with one exception: a stuck hunter actually contacted us from about 10 miles when we were driving by his general area in route to another recovery. He scanned us chatting on 16 with his HT, shouted us down, and got himself 'scheduled' to be recovered. They had walked 7 miles out and had many more to go with zero cell coverage. We got him on our way back from recovery 1.

If there are two topics that will generate the most heat on this Forum, they are: 1) A GMRS Travel Channel; and 2) Communications on GMRS beyond "line of sight" And now we have them both in ONE thread! ?

I don't understand what all the commotion is about. Talking to people is way overrated. Most of the time I can't stand talking to people I love. Never mind strangers on the radio. You guys are weird.

Is it weird that I read that in your voice?

Seems like regularly somebody wants to advocate for their favorite channel to use as a travel channel. Just program all 22 in, scan them all and be done with it. Then it won't matter.

I have it on good authority that TWO new GMRS radios will be released in the next few months that have a quick-road-channel/Home button, pre-programmed to Ch19, which many use as the official road channel for GMRS.. "Some people" will disagree/whine/complain about Ch19, so they dont have to use it - they can talk to themselves on some other channel that nobody knows about.

No.. Unless you (or the factory) have added a RX (Receive) CTCSS or DCS/DPL tone/code.then you dont need to do anything. Not having a RX code/tone will not prevent you from hearing anything. HAVING an RX tone/code will prevent you from hearing everything unless the transmission also has that same code/tone.. Remove all RX tones and you will hear everything. I bet there are some good videos on the Youtubes that explain at all for beginners.

Need to stick something else in here since someone else brought it up. DO NOT even THINK that amateur radio clubs or individuals are going to want to PAY ANYTHING to be on a tower. They get it in their head that they are somehow providing some critical public service by being hams that they are entitled to free tower space. Then when they get it you need to ride them like a rented mule to get them to clean up their installs to something resembling a commercial level install at your site. NOT requiring them to do so will get coax runs flopping in the wind, hap hazard line runs in the building and all other sort of crap that is NOT acceptable in a commercial communications facility. I am not saying that ALL hams are like this, but there are damn few that will do it right. And when you have a prospective commercial paying client doing a site walk through and the see it. They are typically NOT going to be coming to your site. Specific to what Steve said concerning the high gain antenna's on a short tower. It's not as much of an issue because the low gain antenna's near field will put them in to the pattern by if nothing else 'brute force' of the signal. This is why you can talk on a repeater that has a dummy load attached to it if you are in the building with it or are really close. And there are ways to deal with high gain antenna's on tall towers. It requires power dividers and low gain antenna's lower on the tower to cover the near field that is missing from the main antenna. Problem is it costs additional money that no one is typically willing to spend, at least at first. Then when the customer figures out that it will help their close in coverage, they approach the tower owner and he quotes additional cost due to it requiring additional vertical real estate (occupies tower space) and add's to the tower loading (weight and wind load). So they see an additional 3 to 5 hundred in monthly cost and they back away. Then at the end of the contract, instead of moving their antenna's down on the tower where it would be effective, they decide that the owner is screwing them and they leave the site all together. The tower owner has done NOTHING wrong, but the customer, not being familiar with vertical real estate practices, has decided that they are getting taken advantage of. Cell carrier's don't do this sort of stuff, because they know the game. BUT cell carriers are masters of the game. And THEY play it all the time, everywhere. They know what they are willing to pay and what they SHOULD pay, and there is no discussion on that number outside maybe 10%. And ONLY if they are really wanting on that site. One piece of advice that you might think on is this. There are pieces of equipment called transmit combiners and receive multi-couplers. These devices allow for a number of repeaters to be installed on a specific set of antenna's on a specific band. Meaning VHF, UHF or 800. The receive ones can be expanded to connect a large number of receivers in a band pass but the transmit ones are limited to maybe 8 transmitters per antenna. And this is for UHF. The VHF situation is much more difficult to deal with as the splits from TX to RX on VHF vary wildly and often overlap. But if you are marketing PORTS, you eliminate the need to install specific antenna's per customer, which reduces their cost. You limit your assigned vertical real estate that's occupied, and tower loading which means you have MORE space to rent. That reduced cost to the tenant is significant. A typical antenna install with line and tower crew is 5 to 10 thousand depending on how high, and the market you are in. This is how I am running 2 GMRS repeaters and have the ability to put 2 more on the air by simply programming the repeaters and connecting them up to the equipment. And I have a second combiner that will allow my to install 4 MORE repeaters on ham or commercial frequencies by tuning the combiner and connecting the repeaters to the combiner and receive multi-coupler.

Not to discourage you, but most GMRS users get their licenses only to talk to specific family and friends, or for a specific activity (like off-roading). Most aren't listening for, nor will they respond to, people they don't know. It isn't personal; that's just not what they got their radios for. You can try it, and you might make a few contacts. I just want to set your expectations.

I would only put code plugs online for certified GMRS radios. Putting code plugs for other CCR style radios is just promoting no compliant radios.

Awe CRAP, as a group: we couldn't select a Standard Road Channel (SRC) and now we hear we need an elected local leadership to guide us! Is your name Putin or is the just your leadership ability guiding us individual sheep toward discord?