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That could be a really good thing or it can open up a can of worms that we don't want. I say that because we all know some people want to turn GMRS into HAM Lite. We don't have enough frequencies/channels available for linking repeaters or different digital modes, etc, etc. I would hate to see GMRS turn into what the Chicken Band (CB) has become.

You weren't trying to call your minions in his part of the country to coordinate their burglarizing efforts, since his X post made him obviously not home to defend the place?

GMRS is for whatever TF I want to use it for as long as I'm not committing an actual violation.

Was on the Glomar Explorer when it took a lightning strike to the derrick. I was on the port bridge wing. You could "feel" in the air just before. Really disorienting afterwards. That's as close as I ever want to be to a strike.

Yes - last night I was trying to look up someone's GMRS callsign that he posted on X so I could DOX him, and I was getting that same error.

Yes, I am always concerned about unintended consequences when changes are made to satisfy people who don’t fully understand the history and context of rules.

I live in a port town. For my entire life I have driven past a marine electronics store. Not needing "marine" electronics (radar, sonar, gps and its predecessor LORAN, and of course radios). I never had a need to visit. But as it turns out the store carries all sorts of GMTS, FRS and HAM equipment. And not just for boats. i called yesterday and found out that not only do they have probably everything you find all your needs met in one place. Plus and more importantly, they are more than to share decades of knowledge and experience. Heading down tomorrow with a list of needfuls and more importantly a list of questions.

No thanks. I’m not against it. This forum is enough.

I bet the comments will range from sensible to totally hare brain/off the wall and everything in between. This can be a double edged sword for everyone. They might deregulate things for commercial users and broadcast services that greatly affect amateur and GMRS uses. Or the FCC could make changes that will help amateur/GMRS bands. We just don't know at this point. I have to agree that the cat is out of the bag and long gone when it comes to separating FRS and GMRS. Too many of the FRS/GMRS blister pack radios were sold over the years. And the manufacturers never really mentioned the need for a license on the packages of those blister pack GMRS radios. The license requirements were in small print in the instructions that most people never read.

That rule will NEVER be rolled back from 2017 - the entire reason it was changed was because no one was getting their license for their 2W bubble pack radios as it was. There's literally zero way that Pandora's Box will ever be shut again at this point. As others have said - this is for DE-regulation. The FCC I guarantee will not be hearing stuff about GMRS and linking and other hand-wringing issues that could have been in their own NPRM/petition that no one has bothered doing until now anyway. This is not the "lazy way out" of doing your own due diligence as the GMRS community as before. I am surprised that yet again I have to comment about how FCC rulemaking works, but I am sure a bunch of armchair experts that have never dealt with the FCC outside their amateur/family service licenses will come once more to say how I am wrong. I will be sure to pop come popcorn and come back in a month or two to see the hilarity that ensues as always.

Here’s your chance to make a difference!

There can be more than one repeater on the same frequency. If they are near each other, with overlapping coverage areas, then they will usually each use different CTCSS tones to access them. If this is the case, then you would program your radio with the same frequencies on 2 different channels, but have your transmit set to use the correct tone frequency for each. If they do not use a tone on the output of the repeater, then, as mentioned in the above post, you will hear all traffic on either one. If they do use a tone on their output, then you would program than into your receive tone setting for each channel. That way you will only hear the traffic through the repeater on the channel you select.

I have the Surecom SW102, and the NanoVNA. Advantages to the NanoVNA: You don't just get SWR, you can get an SWR curve showing you where the dip in the curve is, and can identify immediately whether the antenna is too long or too short. With just an SWR meter you have to take multiple samples and plot your own curve. Also the NanoVNA does a LOT more than just SWR. Advantage of the SW102 - It tells you the power level being transmitted. And it's very simple to use. But for accurate power, and to avoid annoying people you'll need a dummy load, too.

That myth has been busted numerous time. It will not hurt to loop the excess coax inside your vehicle. In fact, if you have enough extra coax then looping it can help reduce noise as it can act as a common mode choke. Most antenna mounts come with 12-16 feet of coax with the most common being 12 feet.

My rise to the King of all that is H.A.M.s radios is not dependent on getting permission from the government or guessing 35 questions correctly. In the 21st Century greatness is measured by subscribers and views..

Plus there’s already enough discord on this Forum! ?

Not meant to be a divisive or abrasive topic. It's laid out pretty clearly what the spirit of GMRS is. Not 70cm lite.. Less for "rag chews" and "making contacts" and more for having radios in the family cars to home. Or a group or family on a ski trip, event, or off roading keeping track of eachother... Repeaters meant to be more local to get up over a hill... Not for yelling "WHISKEY SIERRA ALFA TANGO 423 Monitoring!". For people with some other stated goal and using radio as an aid, and not just "being on the radio". Functional use..

If you’re attempting a db read or worse extract every hour they may have blocked you thinking that you’re testing for a denial of service attack.

I have several SWR meters of varying frequency ranges and varying precision that I've used successfully in the past. I finally went for the nanoNVA-H4. I find it very useful and fascinating to experiment with. Having a full sweep of the band and broadband capability (mine goes to 1.5gHz) is immensely helpful with building/tuning antennas. While much the same SWR info can be gained by MANY readings on an straight (single-frequency at a time) SWR meter, the VNA does it all almost instantaneously, and also offers other useful test modes, such as cable testing. My only regret is not buying one sooner.

New guy here. I am also a member of the HAM community and have discovered discord is a massive part of the national conversation going on in that space. I see a lot of other forums and spaces for GMRS pointing folks to this site. That in combination with the resources and community already present here made me wonder if their was already a discord server setup or if there was any interest or discussion going on in regards to creating one.

I would suggest that all language relating to Fixed Stations be stricken from the GMRS regulations. Incremental improvements still help.

That would really make the old curmudgeons mad, they are still belly aching about the removal of the CW code requirements. I have to agree that any de-regulations will be geared towards the big TV/telecom/internet industry. I just hope that amateur radio and GMRS are not negatively affected. We already lost part of the 1.25m/220 MHz band to UPS and they have never used it. And we have at least one company trying to get a portion of the 900 MHz band that will basically wipe out Meshtastic.

nevermind

Nothing much sadly at this point - tower sites and getting any sort of access/agreement is seemingly the one and only hurdle to overcome. The 600 repeater is one I have access to and know that most members that were grandfathered in are still using it - just its REALLY quiet in the meantime. The repeater is in an odd situation between ownership and site access but I am hoping to "take over" that situation at one point to see what can be done if at all possible.

Before you think of buying a more powerful radio, consider all the advice you've been given here. Check all the things @SteveShannon suggested. If you're wanting to use it in a fixed location, @Socalgmrs is spot on about a good antenna and elevation. If you want to be mobile with it, the best you can do is a magnetic-mount antenna on the roof of your vehicle, but that will still be much better than the stock HT antenna. Even handheld, a better antenna can help. The stock antennas are usually mediocre at best. Radio waves do funny things, but generally speaking, they travel in a straight line, meaning that if you can hear the repeater, it should be able to hear you...but there are some caveats. An RF signal may be completely blocked by intervening terrain, in which case you won't pick it up. However, it can sometimes be somewhat attenuated but not blocked. In that case, more power may be helpful, but it's possible to overdo it and spend too much money. For any practical purpose, each watt increase costs more than the watt before it, and that adds up pretty quickly. Power is a distant third behind topography and antenna in terms of improving your signal. It's been my experience that if I can't hit it with 15-20 watts, I can't hit it with 50 watts either. By this, you may infer that I spent the money for a 50 watt radio. I don't regret it because it was extra features I wanted it for, but for two identical radios, I wouldn't pay extra for anything above 20 watts. This is only my personal experience and others may disagree, but my advice is worth at least what you paid for it.

All SWR meters are directional power meters at heart. The SWR meters that were manufactured by Nissei for MFJ are okay, about the same as any other mass produced SWR meter. They’re a compromise between cost and accuracy and because they try to measure very wide frequency and power ranges they excel at none. The biggest problem I see with them is an inability to measure low levels of reflected power accurately, leading to very optimistic SWR values at low power. But good enough is good enough. As far as antenna analyzers (which are not SWR meters) I also prefer RigExpert. They’re easy to use and have a lot of functionality built into them that I suspect many people never use. For instance, if you know the actual length of a cable you can use the RigExpert to determine the actual Velocity Factor (VF). If you know the actual VF you can measure the length of the cable using the RigExpert. Once you know the VF, save it so you can look it up. Then, if a long cable starts acting strange remeasure the length using the RigExpert and the saved VF. If it’s anything other than what you measured originally it tells you the general location of a problem. But a RigExpert will not tell you forward power or reflected power. For that you need a directional watt meter. Once you have those two measurements you can very easily calculate SWR. That’s where Bird or Telewave stand head and shoulders above all of the cheap SWR/wattmeters. Their sensors are calibrated for the exact range of frequencies and power levels you wish to measure. The McBazel SW-102 is inexpensive, does a lot of different things, including measuring the frequency (something that neither the high end wattmeter nor the moderately expensive antenna analyzer can do, except for the MFJ 259, 269 series), forward power (within limits) and reflected power (possibly even more limited at the bottom end), and calculates the SWR based on those limited measurements. I think they’re very handy for a go bag for use with a specific range of power outputs.

@OffRoaderX (aka Notarubicon) tested this myth on his YouTube channel and found that looping the cable didn't affect the SWR at all. That prompted me to test it myself with two different pieces of coax and three different radios from 5 to 35 watts, and I also found no change at all in SWR or transmission range. I'm about to put an antenna on my truck and I plan to leave a few extra feet of coax so I change the position of the radio, plug in an HT, or whatever else may come up. I'll just coil the extra into a loop and secure it with cable ties.

MFJ is far from even coming close to being accurate. RigExpert appears to be pretty accurate and is an excellent tool. Bird 43s and Telewave meters are accurate, but you have to use the chart to determine the VSWRs.

Finally got down to the marine electronics store. Quite a learning experience. They don't usually do a lot of GMRS stuff, but certainly have everything needed to install them . they also can make up a custom coax. Unknown to me was that there are a number of different types, including some that are designed for high heat environments. Stranded and non stranded. Made a lot of recommendations on coax routing, grounding and on and on. Frankly, it was overload, but they said to just call with any questions. So, for my NMO mount and coax I need to get an accurate measurement and let them know and they will make it up. Apparently, it's a high complicated five minute job. I had figured I would get a premade coax longer than needed and just loop the extra and stuff it out of the way. Apparently it's not a good idea to loop the cable.

Now THAT's legitimate usage!

The Cadillac of quick meters is RigExperts. I have the Stick XPro, but the Stick Pro and Stick 500 also cover UHF. I chose the XPro because it does 1.2GHz. https://rigexpert.com/products/antenna-analyzers/ If you want to spend a ton of money on a professionals series, FieldFox is kind of one of the standard pieces of equipment for RF Technicians. If you want significantly cheaper, a NanoVNA will do the job, but it can be rather annoying to calibrate and use every time.

The Phantom Midland antenna mounted on the OPs Jeep will work fine on GMRS freqs especially in the City on the trail with other Jeeps. As a temporary install while I was waiting for my Larsen Glassmount Antenna to be shipped, I use this location in my 23 Wrangler Rubi 2 Dr. and I was surprised that I was able to hit several repeaters miles away. I have no clue why the picture won't orintate as the picture is in my gallery is orientated.

Interesting. Ive never seen anoy one bash antenna farm on RR. As a matter of fact they are recommended quite often. They did some changes last year but still one of the best places for hobby folks to get stuff. I use Talley and Tessco for work stuff but get alot of non work items from Antenna Farm.

ONLY if you lack the required Sense of Humor ?

Like Steve said, Antenna Farm, or Arcadian.com, Pulse/Larsen, any of these should have NMO mounts for the Larsen NMO-27, which is a far better antenna than your Tram/Browning.

How about trying a company dedicated to antennas? https://theantennafarm.com

This is exactly why i got into GMRS and not ham. We offroad, hike and camp. I dont want to be in the California desert and hear someone in Nevada calling out trails, talking to their point man or tail. Its a local system for local use.

I look forward to hearing what you discover. Although the technology is interesting I think it will be turned down for the most basic reason: You’re connecting a GMRS repeater to a network, which means you are carrying GMRS communications on a network which is prohibited by the FCC interpretation of the rules. Here’s their interpretation: GMRS stations cannot be interconnected with the public switched telephone network or any other network for the purpose of carrying GMRS communications, but these networks can be used for remote control of repeater stations.

Yep, that's why Midland is a good choice. Glad we agree.

Go back and read the entire post where I quoted the FCC that you said you agreed to. You are selectively choosing to only address what you want while missing the intent of GMRS. Respectfully, I for one disagree that having POC would be very cool on GMRS. I’m pretty sure the FCC clarified their position and intent. On this I happen to agree with them. I respect your position to disagree but I see no point in a lengthy back and forth. You are just trying to find a spot in the fence that you don’t see a no trespassing sign to get to the other side while knowing you don’t belong there.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a win, but currently what your doing is not legal. Also, it sounds a lot like your talking about DMR talk groups on GMRS and taking a page out of the HAM / DMR / Brandmeister playbook and marketing it. All of which is available on the HAM bands for free, including linked and worldwide repeater network, hotspots, etc. as I'm sure you know. Now I'm knocking you for trying this, cant really fault you for it. But at the end of the day, GMRS does not allow it and does not have the bandwidth other radio services do, like HAM, which is easily accessible to the public.

I think the FCC said it best… In addition to violating Commission rules, linking repeaters is not in the public interest. Because GMRS spectrum is limited and used on a shared “commons” basis, the service only works well on a localized basis when users can hear each other and cooperate in the sharing of channels. Linking repeaters not only increases the potential for interference, but also uses up a limited spectrum resource over much larger areas than intended, limiting localized availability of the repeater channels. GMRS and the Family Radio Service (FRS), which share many of the GMRS channels, are intended for individuals such as family members and friends, scouting troops, emergency response groups, and hobbyists to communicate with each other over short distances, directly or through a repeater station. Linking repeaters, via the internet or other networks, undermines the purpose and usefulness of the GMRS and FRS.

OK Cogent, I'll call your bluff. What law firm are you using as an advisor for interpretation of the FCC's rules and Part 97 regulations? If you don't have an attorney of record providing regulatory guidance who has worked with the Wireless Telecommunications Bureau on the feasibility of this proposal, then it is nothing but a pipe dream borne from a desire to increase division revenues.

Seems a lot of people make this mistake as a newbie GMRS user. I'm seeing several topics on it. People not hearing you? Here's my explanation. CTCSS - Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System DCS - Digital Coded Squelch Both of these serve the same purpose: To isolate conversation. Be warned, however, some radios advertise these as "privacy tones." They have nothing to do with privacy. They do not "hide" your conversation in any way. For example: If you connect to a repeater using 462.725MHz (Channel 22. Repeater channel 22 is 467.725MHz), and the requested CTCSS is 141.3Hz, then anyone listening with that tone code will be able to hear you. Without it, they won't hear you at all. However, if you're listening, and you're not using a tone code, you will hear EVERYTHING (hence why tones have nothing to do with privacy). The CTCSS code ensures that only traffic using that transmit tone code will be heard on your radio. Anything else not using that code or using a different code your radio will ignore. While it's not necessary to have a receive code since you will hear everything, it's because that you'll hear everything that you may not know who's actually talking from that repeater, or who just happens to be using that frequency. That may end up causing confusion with conversations. TL;DR: If people aren't responding to you, it's probably because they can't hear you because of a missing CTCSS code for your radio. Double check with the repeater owner to see if a transmit CTCSS or DCS code is required. Do note that not all GMRS radios support repeaters or CTCSS/DCS codes. WSCL244/KF0QNM

I normally don't respond to posts or spend a bunch of time on forums. I found this interesting with lots of differing opinions and some good points. My thoughts on radio and its use are shaped by a carrier in public safety, emergency management, and my personal use of Marine VHF, GMRS and HAM, within licensure guidelines. The FCC states "95.1703 Definitions, GMRS. General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS). A mobile two-way voice communication service, with limited data applications, for facilitating activities of individual licensees and their family members, including, but not limited to, voluntary provision of assistance to the public during emergencies and natural disasters." As mentioned, I have both GMRS and HAM licenses. I also own a local GMRS repeater that has a large footprint, and am involved in HAM repeater systems that are part of the SKYWARN network. No, GMRS was never meant to be HAM. But all things evolve over time, it will not become HAM (nothing will become HAM, it is literally an experimental license that allows HAMs to do many, many things), but its use has and will evolve (grandfathered licenses for example) just like CB radio did. In my opinion, GMRS has some distinct advantages over HAM. The biggest being that once license covers a family. Repeater linking is not allowed in GMRS, so that keeps comms more local. A big benefit to GMRS and GMRS repeaters in particular, is the ability to provide alternate and emergency comms for families and friends. Most of the people who want access to my repeater specify they want it for emergency use to communicate with family and friends. Something a lot of people don't realize about cell phone service. Cell providers, and really all of telecom, are not required to provide long term emergency power for their sites or nodes. Most only have battery backup that doesn't last very long. My area gets hit with some severe weather once a year that causes widespread outages due to power and telecom lines being down. The first thing that happens is the cell towers get loaded up and bandwidth drops. If you have a cell provider that is not a big company that owns its own network, you are the first to get dropped from the network / site. Most people also don't realize that most "landline" phones are now VIOP. When the node goes down because its batteries are dead, so is you phone and internet (assuming you have power). As soon as the cell site without a generator looses it battery backup, its off the air and your cell is out. This can last for days. In contrast, the "big" repeater sites, both HAM and GMRS, are on UPS and gen power. My GMRS repeater can run a minimum of 24 hours with moderate use before I need to plug it into the generator. All the HAM sites I'm familiar with are the same way and are usually on commercial towers with gen backup. In order to use radio for emergency comms, you need to be familiar with radio and be fluent in its use. You need to know your radios work, you need to know the repeaters you programmed a year ago are on the air, and you need to know where you can use them from and who you can communicate with on them. You also need to have a plan for using radio to communicate when cells and landlines are down. Radio checks, general conversation, and rag chewing on repeaters helps ensure this.

Any update or is this kaput? Like most forum discussions, it seems to have died. I just checked and there are 3 different listings for 550 in Lexington Co., none of which are working (2 are stale, most recent is offline). I'm getting highway flagmen on 575 (I doubt they're using FRS radios because they are a few miles from me). [Do these flagmen always use 575 in other places too?] And the occasional activity from Crowders Mtn. 575 repeater is still there. The Lexington 575 repeater is offline too but anyway it was Permission Required with no response to requests. So I'm looking for a different home base frequency to routinely monitor. I had an idea that if those in the area would agree on a tone we could use the 600 that mostly sits idle. So IMO 141.3 would be best to start with (typical for open repeater or travel use). Without a repeater, my range will be short but we do have several local GMRSers in range if they want to use it. FWIW, I heard users from Central Time zone on 725 so it is still linked. I don't know about the 650 and 700 members-only repeaters but I'm not monitoring those anymore.

And don't let the fact that the 935G Plus is a SOC (system on chip) radio and not superheterodyne bother you.. The 935G does just as well as the Wouxun KG-Q10G/H models that are superheterodyne. I can't tell any difference between the 935G Plus and the Q10H models I own.

935G plus is my go to radio. I highly recommend it based on countless tests against Baofeng and TID Radios that I have done. They are a more expensive radio than most but I have not been disappointed by it's overall performance and capabilities. The other thing for me, is I have tested power output on many radios. The 935G+ has been the most consistent in "advertised" power output (close to 5 watts and in some cases more). Other radios in the Baofeng and TID radio department are hit or miss on output. For me that is the difference from making contact in a unique location I visit to not making a contact. That little bit of extra juice makes the difference for me against other radios I have tested from same location.

I have owned the 935G and now have the 935G Plus and both like it and recommend it. It is my goto GMRS handheld and I have had many GMRS handhelds. I use the wide RX capabilities a lot. In my area the local Sheriff's department is still using VHF so I have my 935G+ programmed to be able to listen local law enforcement and fire departments. When I travel I program any repeaters I might be in range of along my planned route. I have also programmed in 186 railroad frequencies to scan on long trips to keep me entertained. I have all the HAM repeaters in my area programmed in so I can listen to those if I want. I have tested the 935G+ side by side with several different superheterodyne radios and RX/TX is just as good. The IP66 rating is good and I have used the radio in the rain and snow. It has also been dropped a couple of times with no damage. At first I didn't think I would care about the Channel Wizard but have come to appreciate it when programming the 935G+ by hand.