Midland GMRS Product updates

[mbrun]

That is a very nice find indeed. I have that on my amateur radio and currently use it to scan for tones on GMRS frequencies. I hope my next GMRS radio purchases will have it as well so I don’t have to use two radios to achieve same results.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PM

 

Found a function on the MXT400 the other day that I didn't see in the manual. You can scan for CTCSS or DCS on a channel if you long hold the CTCSS/DCS button. The codes will start scrolling. If there are active communications on that channel, it will eventually pause on the code. I've use it on the repeater channels to help figure out repeater tones if there's chatter.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[AdmiralCochrane]

Great function if the repeater is using in and out tones

[dwmitchell61]

I know this has been said before, but why pay twice as much for a Type Approved/Certified radio, just to reprogram it, nullifying the certification, making the radio non-compliant/illegal?  I don't endorse it, but if you're going to run an illegal radio, there are way better and more affordable radios out there.

Are the Part 90 radios TRULY legal to use under Part 95, not being certified FOR Part 95, but being programmed to Part 95 specifications? Seems everyone finds THAT acceptable to all here, but altering the settings in a Part 95 certified radio and still being within the Part 95 specifications is NOT acceptable?

 

The FCC says this:

§95.335   Operation of non-certified transmitters prohibited.

Except as provided in paragraph (a) of this section, no person shall operate a transmitter in any Personal Radio Service unless it is a certified transmitter; that is, a transmitter of a type which has obtained a grant of equipment certification for that service, pursuant to part 2, subpart J of this chapter. Use of a transmitter that is not FCC-certified voids the user's authority to operate that station. See sections 302(a), ( , and (e) of the Communications Act (47 U.S.C. 302(a), ( , and (e)).

 

§95.1773   GMRS authorized bandwidths.

Each GMRS transmitter type must be designed such that the occupied bandwidth does not exceed the authorized bandwidth for the channels used. Operation of GMRS stations must also be in compliance with these requirements.

 

§95.1773   GMRS authorized bandwidths.

(a) Main chanThe authorized bandwidth is 20 kHz for GMRS transmitters operating on any of the 462 MHz main channels (see §95.1763(a)) or any of the 467 MHz main channels.  (see §95.1763©).

(  Interstitial channels. The authorized bandwidth is 20 kHz for GMRS transmitters operating on any of the 462 MHz interstitial channels (see §95.1763( ) and is 12.5 kHz for GMRS transmitters operating on any of the 467 MHz interstitial channels (see §95.1763(d)).

 

I thought I had read in the FCC rules that using a radio NOT certified in that part is unacceptable, and I didn't find ANY reference to Part 90 being acceptable, reprogrammed, for operation under Part 95.

 

It just sounds like a double standard to me... Advocating using a reprogrammed Part 90 certified radio under Part 95, but telling someone it is illegal to use a Part 95 radio, reprogrammed to operate under the Part 95 allotted bandwidth of 20kHz.

 

Maybe someone can clear it up so I am not confused about the legalities?

$10,000 in fines and a yanked license seems a tad more expensive than a $250 price tag on a radio.

 

Confused in Vancooterviile...

[Hans]

Are the Part 90 radios TRULY legal to use under Part 95, not being certified FOR Part 95, but being programmed to Part 95 specifications? Seems everyone finds THAT acceptable to all here, but altering the settings in a Part 95 certified radio and still being within the Part 95 specifications is NOT acceptable?

 

The FCC says this:

§95.335   Operation of non-certified transmitters prohibited.

Except as provided in paragraph (a) of this section, no person shall operate a transmitter in any Personal Radio Service unless it is a certified transmitter; that is, a transmitter of a type which has obtained a grant of equipment certification for that service, pursuant to part 2, subpart J of this chapter. Use of a transmitter that is not FCC-certified voids the user's authority to operate that station. See sections 302(a), ( , and (e) of the Communications Act (47 U.S.C. 302(a), ( , and (e)).

 

§95.1773   GMRS authorized bandwidths.

Each GMRS transmitter type must be designed such that the occupied bandwidth does not exceed the authorized bandwidth for the channels used. Operation of GMRS stations must also be in compliance with these requirements.

 

§95.1773   GMRS authorized bandwidths.

(a) Main chanThe authorized bandwidth is 20 kHz for GMRS transmitters operating on any of the 462 MHz main channels (see §95.1763(a)) or any of the 467 MHz main channels.  (see §95.1763©).

(  Interstitial channels. The authorized bandwidth is 20 kHz for GMRS transmitters operating on any of the 462 MHz interstitial channels (see §95.1763( ) and is 12.5 kHz for GMRS transmitters operating on any of the 467 MHz interstitial channels (see §95.1763(d)).

 

I thought I had read in the FCC rules that using a radio NOT certified in that part is unacceptable, and I didn't find ANY reference to Part 90 being acceptable, reprogrammed, for operation under Part 95.

 

It just sounds like a double standard to me... Advocating using a reprogrammed Part 90 certified radio under Part 95, but telling someone it is illegal to use a Part 95 radio, reprogrammed to operate under the Part 95 allotted bandwidth of 20kHz.

 

Maybe someone can clear it up so I am not confused about the legalities?

$10,000 in fines and a yanked license seems a tad more expensive than a $250 price tag on a radio.

 

Confused in Vancooterviile...

 

Look back and read a page or two in this very thread.

[dwmitchell61]

That is an interesting report. Unfortunately, I am not really sure what it is you are describing.  I am guessing when you say make it split, you mean use different PL tones on transmit and receive. But, I am unclear about open up the band.  If this were to allow reception from frequencies outside of GMRS, that would make sense. However, if it means allow transmitting on frequencies outside of GMRS, that would certainly nullify the Part95 certification, one of the major benefits of the radio.

 

So, more information would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

He is saying you can set the bandwidth to the legal Part 95 20kHz from the 12.5 that Midland ships the rig set to using the software. 

[RDH]

I'd like to have a mobile unit (in addition to my BTech GMRS-V1) in time for hunting season. Processing these choices (are there more?):

 

1. Get BTech GMRS-50X1 now;

2. Wait for Midland's new mobile unit; or

3. Step up to pricier options.

My brothers have had the midlands for several years now. They have the same issues mentioned above. Unless the repeaters you plan on using have the same tones on input and output then you are out of luck. I have had the btech 50x1 for a little over a month now and I can't complain. It has no problem setting up different input and output tones and definitely has better range on high power than their midlands do. I have had 3 different antennas on it and they all do well. The browning 450, the Nagoya 200c, and currently the midland ghost. Unless something better comes to the market in the $150 to $250 new price range the btech is the top preformer. Your other option could be to get the 32w btech mobile amp that run about $100 and just turn your current handheld into a quick detach mobile unit.

[Shadow471]

From my reading, the MXT275 is set to NFM.

Can this be changed?

Sounding like, no.

 

I don't feel like I need a 40W (MXT400) or 50W (GMRS-50x1).

I like the compact and versatile package of the MXT275.

Just got it a last week.

But so far it's in the house with a UT72 mag mount on my metal framed desk on teh second floor.

Hitting my local mwGMRS net repeater about 40 miles away, nice and strong.

Can't wait to test it out in the car. Waiting for the NMO Mag mount with UT75 NMO.

 

 

72

[3Tubalcain]

 

Thanks for the additional information and the link. It seems there is a lot unsaid here. First of all, is use of the software by consumers even authorized? If it would allow the customer to set the radio to operate in a manner inconsistent with Part-95E.  

 

In trying to answer this question, I returned to a post from @Hans in 2018 in a discussion which suggests the MXT400 is really a Luiton LT-590 with modified settings for GMRS certification.  With the Midland software already installed, I then downloaded the Luiton software. And guess what, they seem to be essentially the same, with some functionality removed from the MXT400 version. One difference is the Luiton version includes help files. So, I was able to determine that the two settings of the most interest were defined as:

STEP = For scanning purposes, the change in frequency between activity checks. (Many options between 5kHz and 50kHz)

CHANNEL SPACING  = occupied bandwidth (narrow or wide): 12.5, 20 & 25 kHz

A few other observations:

• I noticed PL tone 69.3 is still missing, I did not check for other missing tones/codes
• There is a compander option which might help when talking Wide to Narrow band.
• There is an option for voice scrambling, but it is disabled (and not allowed in GMRS)
• There is an Optional Signaling option that is also disabled (DTMF,  2TONE & 5Tone)

So, all in all I say there are two significant learnings here:

1. The major limitations of the MXT400 (bandwidth and split PL) can be overcome.
2. Any doubt that the MXT400 is a Luiton LT-590 on Prosac have been removed.

BTW, I have no way of testing to see if the Luiton software will work on the Midland radio. But, I doubt it.

 

For those who want to pursue this topic, here are a few key links from the Facebook posts

MXT400 Programming software: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0lre3ljgt4nopf6/MXT400_Setup_1.05.zip?dl=1

Programming Cables. Original from Midland: https://midlandusa.com/product/dbr1-dual-band-radio-programming-cable/?fbclid=IwAR1Z-VbLD401AXmbUuGRHVHQFGKjURlY-MC709t1deGnfTDUPZQUGbPpyxI

and a general purpose cable is available from: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D6S2P59/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_tHfaFbXQ51QZK

 

 

 

Thanks for the additional information and the link. It seems there is a lot unsaid here. First of all, is use of the software by consumers even authorized? If it would allow the customer to set the radio to operate in a manner inconsistent with Part-95E.  

 

In trying to answer this question, I returned to a post from @Hans in 2018 in a discussion which suggests the MXT400 is really a Luiton LT-590 with modified settings for GMRS certification.  With the Midland software already installed, I then downloaded the Luiton software. And guess what, they seem to be essentially the same, with some functionality removed from the MXT400 version. One difference is the Luiton version includes help files. So, I was able to determine that the two settings of the most interest were defined as:

STEP = For scanning purposes, the change in frequency between activity checks. (Many options between 5kHz and 50kHz)

CHANNEL SPACING  = occupied bandwidth (narrow or wide): 12.5, 20 & 25 kHz

A few other observations:

• I noticed PL tone 69.3 is still missing, I did not check for other missing tones/codes
• There is a compander option which might help when talking Wide to Narrow band.
• There is an option for voice scrambling, but it is disabled (and not allowed in GMRS)
• There is an Optional Signaling option that is also disabled (DTMF,  2TONE & 5Tone)

So, all in all I say there are two significant learnings here:

1. The major limitations of the MXT400 (bandwidth and split PL) can be overcome.
2. Any doubt that the MXT400 is a Luiton LT-590 on Prosac have been removed.

BTW, I have no way of testing to see if the Luiton software will work on the Midland radio. But, I doubt it.

 

For those who want to pursue this topic, here are a few key links from the Facebook posts

MXT400 Programming software: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0lre3ljgt4nopf6/MXT400_Setup_1.05.zip?dl=1

Programming Cables. Original from Midland: https://midlandusa.com/product/dbr1-dual-band-radio-programming-cable/?fbclid=IwAR1Z-VbLD401AXmbUuGRHVHQFGKjURlY-MC709t1deGnfTDUPZQUGbPpyxI

and a general purpose cable is available from: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D6S2P59/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_tHfaFbXQ51QZK

I tried to connect to the MXT400 using a DBR1 cable to no avail. any suggestions?

[3Tubalcain]

has anyone had trouble using the DBR1 cable to connect with the MXT400. if so, any solutions?

[berkinet]

I tried to connect to the MXT400 using a DBR1 cable to no avail. any suggestions?

Are you connecting to the correct port?

[cliff]

Found a function on the MXT400 the other day that I didn't see in the manual. You can scan for CTCSS or DCS on a channel if you long hold the CTCSS/DCS button. The codes will start scrolling. If there are active communications on that channel, it will eventually pause on the code. I've use it on the repeater channels to help figure out repeater tones if there's chatter.

How long do you have to hold it? Doesn’t seem to be doing it on mine. 

[cliff]

How long do you have to hold it? Doesn’t seem to be doing it on mine. 

Figured it out...

[RDH]

Figured it out...

How long did it turn out to be? I wonder if this works on the MXT275.

[cliff]

How long did it turn out to be? I wonder if this works on the MXT275.

First had to press the CTCSS button to show code then press and hold for a second then it will start scrolling. 

[dwmitchell61]

I found the information on the Facebook group. He is located on the Pasco County GMRS Radio Group.   What I mean is the MXT-400 from the factory are at transmitting at 12.5khz, you can change them to a band within GMRS like 20khz. You can name each channel. Custom start message such as your call sign, Programming of split CTCSS/ DPL.

Mine came from Midland with the repeater channels set to wide band (25kHz). The simplex channels were set to narrow at 12.5kHz. We have a repeater in my area that is operating narrowband and with my radio set for 12.5kHz it sounds just great. I programmed the repeater pairs in my area into the 8 channel slots that are unused due to FRS (8-14) and set them to display by name (OR CTY, GRESHAM, TABOR, OVRLOOK, and PORT1).

 

But the bandwidth, spilt PL tones and reverse offsets cannot be entered through the front panel. That is true.

 

The radio does the job for me. I rather like my radios simple in user interface...

 

For bells and whistles and gadgets I have my cell phone.

[WRJZ943]

has anyone had trouble using the DBR1 cable to connect with the MXT400. if so, any solutions?

Hopefully you found the solution to this already, but if not, you need to make sure you've selected the right COM port (Communication Setting) in the software. After connecting your cable to the radio and pc, click the icon in between the "Read from Radio" and the "Write to Radio" icons.

[WRYR416]

Something that would be great, for Midland to do.

do something about the call alert function, like to be able to turn it off, not just select different tones.

It is very frustrating when i hit that button, and send the tones out over the air.

I have contacted support, and received solutions.

1. go into the call alert function, and select a tone of my choice.

    A. Stupid answer.

2. do a factory reset.

     B. reset did nothing, again, a stupid answer.

3. she will ask someone in the engineering dept.

    C. now this is how it should have been done from the beginning.  

 

 

[bd348]

On 10/19/2023 at 1:38 AM, WRYR416 said:

Something that would be great, for Midland to do.

do something about the call alert function, like to be able to turn it off, not just select different tones.

It is very frustrating when i hit that button, and send the tones out over the air.

Bonus points if you ID afterwards.  "This accident brought to you by WABC123."

[foamhand]

MIDLAND MTX 400 / ANYTONE 588 UHF ONLY Software?

The Midland MTX400 is made by Anytone. It is the Midland 40-watt GMRS version of the discontinued / now illegal Anytone 588 UHF only radio. The Anytone 588 can still be found new occasionally on Ebay from a couple of U.S. suppliers in Calif. I would not trust ordering it from Chinese suppliers as this radio could be confiscated coming thru customs and you'd never see it. I believe Midland bought rights to this model for their GMRS sales from Anytone and Anytone took the 588 UHF off the market for this reason. The 588 UHF allowed manual programming from a DTMF microphone with buttons that the MTX 400 does not have as Manual programming for GMRS and EXTENDED (say Amateur Radio) frequencies is now illegal under Part 95E.

Does anyone know if the Midland MTX 400 can use the Anytone 588 UHF only software since it's the same radio?  Thanks.

Matt.

 

[marcspaz]

39 minutes ago, foamhand said:

...now illegal Anytone 588 UHF only radio.

 

 

What am I missing? Illegal how?

[foamhand]

13 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

 

What am I missing? Illegal how?

Part 95E will not approve any GMRS radio which is capable of transmitting in the unlicensed services such as Amateur Radio, and all programming features need to be internal inside the case on the circuit board for only authorized techs to access. The DTMF programming microphone buttons on the 588 UHF makes that Illegal on GMRS as the Midland Microphone has NO programming buttons on it to pass Part 95E. IF the Anytone 588 UHF only radio was a Part 90 approved radio which I don't believe it is, there may be a grey area for operation on the amateur service, but not GMRS.

[foamhand]

 No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure

[back4more70]

6 minutes ago, foamhand said:

all programming features need to be internal inside the case on the circuit board for only authorized techs to access.

Just so I understand, are you saying that radios cannot have buttons outside the case to facilitate programming?  My Wouxun KG-935G+ would disagree.

[SteveShannon]

7 hours ago, back4more70 said:

Just so I understand, are you saying that radios cannot have buttons outside the case to facilitate programming?  My Wouxun KG-935G+ would disagree.

She isn’t saying that in this particular post; what she posted is the requirement in 95.1761(c).  But she’s using it to support an incorrect interpretation. We have to consider the paragraph in its entirety.  The buttons on the outside of your 935(g) don’t allow you to program your radio to a frequency capability not listed in 95.1763, so they’re not what this paragraph is talking about:

(c) No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure. 

 

 

[UncleYoda]

IMO, @foamhand is misinterpreting the regs.  Having buttons on the microphone does not violate the regs; the buttons don't change what the radio is able to do.  That's the problem with having everyone trying to apply their own interpretation - it doesn't work well.  And that's why the regs need to be written better.