Midland Ad

[quarterwave]

I was disappointed in Midland the other day after seeing an ad of theirs on Facebook. It was advertising the Micro Mobiles (GMRS) for use in a commercial business.

 

I commented that while this could be done if the business was family operated and the family using the radios had a license, it was very unlikely, or maybe hit and miss would be best, that a pilot car company trucking things cross country would be all family operated only affair and that I thought that it was misleading the public on the proper use of GMRS. Now, use of the FRS handhelds would be fine. 

 

Call me a stickler, but there is right and there is wrong. 

[GuySagi]

The situation is common to a lot of big business for reasons invisible to the average consumer. That's not to say it's good, and my media/editing history has provided me a rather sordid history of dealing with similar, and even dangerous (not just condoning illegal) nonsense. Once upon a time I came pretty close to being dismissed from an editor-in-chief position because I refused to let an ad built by a major advertiser's hired marketing firm run. On the Internet you don't have that extra due diligence. In print at least, where I came from, the entire editorial staff is not only held accountable (even though they didn't create it) for those that appear, but are required to review where it is placed in the magazine. The process sounds painful long, but it's fast and darned fulfilling with experience.

 

The Reader's Digest version of the way campaigns like this one come about is simple. A company gets big and farms out 100 percent of its marketing efforts rather than hiring folks, expanding offices and increasing payroll/benefits. The advertising/marketing firm's knowledge isn't endemic to the industry or it performs incomplete research. It comes up with a "cutting edge" approach and the manufacturing company's staff either didn't see it, or missed it in the 100 ad dump submitted all at once for the first quarter of next year.   

 

I know for a fact Midland has farmed out it's stateside marketing to a another company, one that deals with a lot of different industries. It's a solid company with a sterling reputation that would likely be aghast at the error. I'll keep an eye out for the ad in my Facebook feed and discuss it with a couple folks I know there. If you happen to see it before me (I not a big Facebook fan), pm me a screencap or link if you can.

 

You're not a stickler, just a ton more observant than the average person. The world would be a safer and better place if more people were.  

[axorlov]

If every operator of said pilot car company had an individual GMRS license, then why not? Does not have to be a family business. License is not expensive, $60 for 10 years is nothing compared to the cost of a radio. Decent pair of shoes cost more these days, and they do not last 10 years.

[GuySagi]

Good point. 

[quarterwave]

If every operator of said pilot car company had an individual GMRS license, then why not? Does not have to be a family business. License is not expensive, $60 for 10 years is nothing compared to the cost of a radio. Decent pair of shoes cost more these days, and they do not last 10 years.

 

While technically true, and they can get away with it, the spirit of the rule is that GMRS is not for everyday for-profit business use. That is what Part 90 is for unless you can get by with FRS/MURS. 

 

Would we also justify that if each operator had a Ham license that they could technically get away with operating the for profit business on Ham frequencies? I would assume most will say no. 

 

I think the scenario plays to the spirit of the rules, and the fact that someone would be going to alot of trouble, and alot of technical indulgence to get each employee licensed just to use the service, whereas employees come and go (with their license) but a business license covers whomever works there, and for most people, their contractors. Now, put all of that in a probability machine and figure out who the advertisement plays to (who knows all of this) and you get near zero. 

 

Not crying foul...just shedding light. 

[quarterwave]

https://midlandusa.com/the-best-two-way-radios-for-pilot-cars/?fbclid=IwAR28HiOThCZvso-x1Cuj3euasb_tAaWBNnQo5kORSEVw6DQ22HkJY0pAKMo

[axorlov]

Business use of Amateur Radio is specifically prohibited in Part 97. So, no, using Ham license to conduct business is illegal, by spirit and by letter of the law.

Business use of GMRS is allowed, there is no "getting away with it". Use it as you may wish, for profit or for pleasure.

[AdmiralCochrane]

Business use of Amateur Radio is specifically prohibited in Part 97. So, no, using Ham license to conduct business is illegal, by spirit and by letter of the law.

Business use of GMRS is allowed, there is no "getting away with it". Use it as you may wish, for profit or for pleasure.

 

Business use BETWEEN LICENSED stations 

[SUPERG900]

This issue is a tempest in a teapot.

Land Mobile Radio vendors hawk their wares all the time and there's no mention of requiring a license - or that you must be a "business" to legally use their product on a business frequency. It is assumed that the prospective buyer is *intelligent* enough to either know these facts or to research the relevant information.

 

It's the same for GMRS - there are rules for this service and they are easily found. Heck - just post the question and someone here will likely answer it out of the simple goodness of their heart.

Someone mentioned Hams - well no - we can't conduct any business, per se, although we may hold a "tailgate" net where we list used Ham related equipment. These are listings from individuals and are incidentals, meaning no one's making a regular business out of it.

[BoxCar]

This issue is a tempest in a teapot.

 

Land Mobile Radio vendors hawk their wares all the time and there's no mention of requiring a license - or that you must be a "business" to legally use their product on a business frequency. It is assumed that the prospective buyer is *intelligent* enough to either know these facts or to research the relevant information.

 

It's the same for GMRS - there are rules for this service and they are easily found. Heck - just post the question and someone here will likely answer it out of the simple goodness of their heart.

 

Someone mentioned Hams - well no - we can't conduct any business, per se, although we may hold a "tailgate" net where we list used Ham related equipment. These are listings from individuals and are incidentals, meaning no one's making a regular business out of it.

I'll disagree with having to be a business to use LMR. There are specific requirements for who is eligible for a frequency listed in Part 90.20, the Public Safety allocation. The requirements for 90.35, B/ILT or the Commercial portion are the same as the requirements for GMRS. The allocation of frequencies is divided between coordinators representing specific industries, but you don't need to fall into one of those industries to have a frequency assigned.

[SUPERG900]

I'll disagree with having to be a business to use LMR. There are specific requirements for who is eligible for a frequency listed in Part 90.20, the Public Safety allocation. The requirements for 90.35, B/ILT or the Commercial portion are the same as the requirements for GMRS. The allocation of frequencies is divided between coordinators representing specific industries, but you don't need to fall into one of those industries to have a frequency assigned.

 

Sure - the FCC grants some leeway, but I would think that it's glaringly obvious (on it's face) that you'd need to be in Public Safety to use Public Safety Frequencies.

 

A good reading of 90:35 will point out that the use of PS frequencies by BILM is only authorized to the *extent* that they engage in PS related activities - meaning there's no blanket grant there.

 

The requirements for GMRS, for end users are certainly different than BILM. One - there's no frequency coordination. You need to use a radio specifically approved for GMRS operation. You need to have a GMRS license - or be the *immediate* family member of someone who is. And you need to identify with your callsign every 15 minutes.

 

None of that applies to 90:35 end users, or public safety end users either.

 

As far as BILM authorizations go - you need a reason to be assigned a frequency in that service other than "because I just want to". You need to articulate a reason. 

 

I wouldn't mistake lax enforcement by the FCC as being any sort of approval - given the right (or wrong) situation, they can easily pull the rug out from under you, whenever they choose to, and you'd be powerless to do anything about it. No frequency coordinator is going to give a frequency out just so you can chat with your fishing buddies.

[n4gix]

Someone mentioned Hams - well no - we can't conduct any business, per se, although we may hold a "tailgate" net where we list used Ham related equipment. These are listings from individuals and are incidentals, meaning no one's making a regular business out of it.

 

As long as no "price" or discussion of "price" is made, 'tailgate nets' are certainly allowable.

[n4gix]

License is not expensive, $60 for 10 years...

 

GMRS license is now $70 for 10 years. I just had to renew mine a few weeks ago. This will probably outlast me since I'm 73 years old now... 

 

My ham license will expire in 2028, so I may have to renew it though... 

[mbrun]

GMRS license is now $70 for 10 years. I just had to renew mine a few weeks ago. This will probably outlast me since I'm 73 years old now...

 

My ham license will expire in 2028, so I may have to renew it though...

I see 3 more renewals in your future..... How’s that for positive attitude?

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[n4gix]

I see 3 more renewals in your future..... How’s that for positive attitude?

 

Well, that's very kind of you. I can do with positive thoughts! 

[quarterwave]

Business use of Amateur Radio is specifically prohibited in Part 97. So, no, using Ham license to conduct business is illegal, by spirit and by letter of the law.

Business use of GMRS is allowed, there is no "getting away with it". Use it as you may wish, for profit or for pleasure.

 

I think you are missing the point. But OK. 

[AdmiralCochrane]

I can't recall the exact language, but isn't there an exception for hams selling their personal equipment along the lines of the conversation being directly related to operation of ham radios?  That and ARRL employees may transmit as a course of their employment; I think that is an artifact from the time when ARRL was the only training and testing agency.

[wayoverthere]

I can't recall the exact language, but isn't there an exception for hams selling their personal equipment along the lines of the conversation being directly related to operation of ham radios?  That and ARRL employees may transmit as a course of their employment; I think that is an artifact from the time when ARRL was the only training and testing agency.

 

(ii) is the one you're thinking of related to ham equipment. the closed to ARRL i see is (iii) under a definition of "teaching"

 

§97.113   Prohibited transmissions.

 

 

(3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer, with the following exceptions:

(i) A station licensee or station control operator may participate on behalf of an employer in an emergency preparedness or disaster readiness test or drill, limited to the duration and scope of such test or drill, and operational testing immediately prior to such test or drill. Tests or drills that are not government-sponsored are limited to a total time of one hour per week; except that no more than twice in any calendar year, they may be conducted for a period not to exceed 72 hours.

(ii) An amateur operator may notify other amateur operators of the availability for sale or trade of apparatus normally used in an amateur station, provided that such activity is not conducted on a regular basis.

(iii) A control operator may accept compensation as an incident of a teaching position during periods of time when an amateur station is used by that teacher as a part of classroom instruction at an educational institution.

(iv) The control operator of a club station may accept compensation for the periods of time when the station is transmitting telegraphy practice or information bulletins, provided that the station transmits such telegraphy practice and bulletins for at least 40 hours per week; schedules operations on at least six amateur service MF and HF bands using reasonable measures to maximize coverage; where the schedule of normal operating times and frequencies is published at least 30 days in advance of the actual transmissions; and where the control operator does not accept any direct or indirect compensation for any other service as a control operator.