Jones

Gman1971, just give it up already.
 
Moderator's edit: "...I disagree"
 
Sorry moderators, ...but someone had to say it.

Gman1971, just give it up already.
 
Moderator's edit: "...I disagree"
 
Sorry moderators, ...but someone had to say it.

Thanks for the information and now it makes sense. I apologize for a asking, but sure to appreciate you taking the time to explain. 

The "NN" means "Normal/Normal" DCS polarity. If it were "IN" it would be "Inverted/Normal" - etc.
 
Grendel6522: I assume you were just truncating the actual frequency, and that you aren't actually trying to use a repeater on 462.000 MHz, right?  That's NOT a GMRS repeater.

Of more recent vintage, there is the Bridgecom BCR-40U repeater. 

Motorola MSF5000, MSR2000*, MTR2000, XPR8300General Electric Mastr-II*, Mastr-IIIKenwood TKR-820 repeaterKenwood TKR-850 repeaterKenwood NEXEDGE NXR-800 (nice 5W 1U package for driving an external PA)Kenwood NEXEDGE NXR-810Vertex VX7000 series * = Depends on exact model, not all have Part 95.

So, since this is the GMRS forums, which one of these are part 95 compliant?  Because, sometimes, it's not academic if they are or aren't.

You can't use 2 Btech radios or any other CCRs in the same room while trying to use a remote located repeater. The units are too close together, and transmitting on one of them will overload the receiver on the other one, so you will hear nothing.  Get them 100 feet apart, and it will work.

The standard Morse speed for commercial (Part-90) repeater controllers is 25 WPM. The maximum speed for amateur radio repeaters is 20 WPM, but amateur stations using commercial repeaters often use the 25 WPM setting, and I don't think anyone has ever been cited for it. The older Bridgecom repeaters can be set for 10, 20, or 25 WPM. I'm not sure about the newer Bridgecoms, but I would assume they are similar.
 
I have heard faster Morse sent on some machines. There are some that I can't copy, and I can copy 20 WPM by ear. I had to record one ID, and open it up in audio editing software so I could slow it down to the point of readability.  I calculated it at 60 WPM.  It was as ID that would play every time a phone patch was dropped.  I knew there weren't supposed to be phone patches on GMRS, but when I ran the ID, it turned out that it is an old business licensed repeater on a GMRS frequency pair that has been grandfathered in.  That brings up a topic for another thread: Even though grandfathered, it is still a GMRS license, not Part-90... so should they be allowed to use a phone patch?

I used to have a solar array hooked up to my system, but I took it off line due to the fact the solar regulator was cheap, and inferior. It tended to over-charge the batteries, and boil them out on very sunny days. 
 
If I had the money to spend, I would switch to a different type of charge controller, and go with LiFePo batteries, but for now, my setup is working just fine for me, and has been for several years now.  It is great for temporary power outages - but if I lived in California, or someplace with rolling blackouts, I don't think it would last long. In my case, the power was out for about an hour and a half last spring during a thunderstorm, and it worked fine through that, allowing me to keep checking into the weather net on the local 440 repeater.  My power is very reliable. I flickers or browns out on a semi-regular basis, but it has only been totally off for about an hour or two at a time, 4 times in the last 15 years.  Major props to South Central Public Power District of Nelson Nebraska! Great job guys.

I used to have a solar array hooked up to my system, but I took it off line due to the fact the solar regulator was cheap, and inferior. It tended to over-charge the batteries, and boil them out on very sunny days. 
 
If I had the money to spend, I would switch to a different type of charge controller, and go with LiFePo batteries, but for now, my setup is working just fine for me, and has been for several years now.  It is great for temporary power outages - but if I lived in California, or someplace with rolling blackouts, I don't think it would last long. In my case, the power was out for about an hour and a half last spring during a thunderstorm, and it worked fine through that, allowing me to keep checking into the weather net on the local 440 repeater.  My power is very reliable. I flickers or browns out on a semi-regular basis, but it has only been totally off for about an hour or two at a time, 4 times in the last 15 years.  Major props to South Central Public Power District of Nelson Nebraska! Great job guys.

I have a pair of 6-Volt Trojan golf cart batteries sitting in a large plastic tote just outside of the house.  The batteries are hooked in series with a 100 Amp Maxi Fuse for short-circuit protection.  I have #2 copper welding cables running inside the house to a ground bar, and a 12 Volt distribution block with 12 ATO type fuses.  (look for 'marine fuse block') Everything in my ham shack, including my GMRS repeater, runs from that.  I have a regulated power supply hooked up to it to float-charge the batteries.
 
The power rarely goes out here, but if it ever did, I have a portable 5KW Generac Niagara mounted to a steel wagon siting in my garage, ready to wheel out and plug into the changeover panel on the back of the house.

A ham and a GMRS repeater can live comfortably on the same rooftop or even the same tower.  If the ham repeater is an older one, there is a good chance it is a 2-meter machine, which is far enough away from GMRS that it won't be an issue.  Even if it is a UHF 70cm ham machine, both can live on the same space - just as long as both of you have good quality BpBr cavity filters, not just cheap duplexers.
 
Stop by and talk to the building owner or manager. Tell him that there is already a ham repeater up there on his roof, which is a federally licensed service, and that you would like to add an additional licensed service similar to, but not exactly the same as ham radio. Be sure to note that it is being done as a public service, and not for profit in any way.

Jeep enthusiasts should be familiar with DX engineering. It is a great place to buy ham radio and GMRS parts and accessories.  Also, a great place to buy off-roading parts and accessories - from their sister company - Summit Racing Equipment.
 
Summit Racing == DX engineering.

I will throw in a "second" for bluemax49ers cables on Ebay.  https://www.ebay.com/str/bluemax49ers

I will throw in a "second" for bluemax49ers cables on Ebay.  https://www.ebay.com/str/bluemax49ers

I buy my programming cables for all Kenwood radios from this guy “bluemax49ers” on eBay. He’s a HAM who produces excellent quality cables and after you complete your purchase of the cable just send him a message and he will reply back with a link and download of the programming software you need at no charge. His cables are more expensive than most others you can find (avg of $30) but you get a quality cable and both cables and software for all radio models will work flawlessly on Windows 10.
It took me over a year to find this guy and eliminated any concerns from his 100% positive feedback with over 3000 ratings.
I’m not a sales person nor do I receive any compensation by providing the information. I just know how hard it is to find truly respectable sources for this stuff and when I come across seller’s like this guy, I can’t wait to pass it on to others if it saves the headache associated with finding what you need and knowing it was money well spent. Just finished programming my TK-8180K last night. I like the 8180 since it offers 512 programmable channels.

The 8180 uses different programming software, but the same cable as the 880.

The 8180 uses different programming software, but the same cable as the 880.

Perhaps the answer to the main question is this: Asking for permission to use someone’s property is the polite thing to do in a civil society. There are rights and responsibilities in life.

Maybe I am the only one, but I am confused about the purpose of this ongoing rant. Complaints on an online forum are not going to change anything. If you want change, file a Petition for Rulemaking with the FCC. Then get people to support your petition.
 
But, to the points you raise. First, about GMRS radios themselves: Some of your facts are wrong or off target, there is no need for a -5 MHz (not KHz) offset on a GMRS radio. There are only 8 repeater input frequencies defined and those are all 5MHz higher than the 8 defined repeater input frequencies. And, the number of internal memory locations (aka "channels) that a given user needs is very difficult to determine. Probably more than 22, but 180? Zello? Zello works just fine without a GMRS radio at all. But, Zello is an Internet (IP) based app, which means anything that connects to Zello needs an Internet connection. But, you also suggest GMRS should work when away from any cellular infrastructure. So, how is your Zello equipped GMRS radio supposed to connect to Zello when you are in the middle of nowhere? And you complaint about morse code, I really don't know what that is about? We live in a free market economic system. Manufacturers are free to offer products they feel will meet customer and investor needs. You have a choice. And, if you don't like the certified GMRS products you can choose from, there are plenty of other options, from super-cheap CCRs to super-high end Part-90 commercial equipment.
 
Technical questions aside, your major complaint seems to be about licensing fees. Here again I think you are off base. Many services, especially commercial, marine, aviation, LMR, broadcast, common carrier, cellular, etc. have licensing fees and they are often quite expensive. At $7 a year, GMRS is cheap by comparison. Yes, it is more than Amateur. But, Amateur radio is also considered a public service, with a long history and International agreements. And, what difference does it make who you pay a licensing fee to the FCC, the ARRL, a local radio club or whatever? But, even here you are not current. There is now a proposal in the FCC to lower GMRS licensing fees to $50 and add a fee for Amateur radio. The reason? It appears federal law requires fees be set to recover costs. The GMRS fee was bringing in too much money, ham radio was bringing in nothing.
 
You also object to being taxed on your GMRS radio, but have no issue with the FCC requiring a cell phone company to offer a GMRS repeater service on every tower for free. When you consider the equipment and installation costs, plus administration and maintenance costs, are you willing to pay for that every month when Verizon and AT&T raise your bill to cover their costs? There is no free lunch.
 
Ok, you obviously feel strongly about something, otherwise you wouldn't have started this topic and posted 7 follow-up comments. But, it is really hard to understand just what it is you are complaining about and what you think should be done about it. Can you succinctly state the top 5 high level problems you see with GMRS today, the reasons you think those are problems, and 5 proposed solutions.

See page 18 of the owner's manual.  Press the TS/DCS button on the front panel.  It will toggle between CTCSS, DCS, and OFF modes.

See page 18 of the owner's manual.  Press the TS/DCS button on the front panel.  It will toggle between CTCSS, DCS, and OFF modes.

"Quiet Codes" or "Private Codes" above 39 on your Midland will be DCS/DCG/DPL digital tone... whatever.
Read your MXT400 owner's manual.  There is a chart that will tell you which codes are what.

I'd add, since the radios being used are not certified for either GMRS or FRS, they do not automatically set or limit bandwidth and power in accordance with the channel requirements.  This means it is quite possible someone is transmitting wideband at 5 watts on a channel designated for narrowband at 0.5 watts.  Note also, a certified radio blocks the possibility of operating simplex on the GMRS repeater input frequencies (not allowed by the rules). But, this is possible with the radios you are using.
 
While operating a non-certified radio is a technical violation of the law, it generally will not cause harm to other people's communications. However, running too much power in wideband mode on the wrong channel could easily interfere with other users, both simplex and through a repeater.
 
Personally, I don't care what kind of equipment people run on GMRS, as long as the equipment has a clean transmitter, they otherwise conform to the rules, and don't advertise the fact they are running non-certified equipment.  
 
However, flagrant violation of the FCC regulations can become especially notable when there are 175 cars in a long queue on the highway. So, you might want to make sure your group at least adheres to the operating rules.