Building new house, pre-wire it for a repeater?

[Jarrow]

I’m building a new house (in an HOA) and wondering if there’s a more inconspicuous way to set up a repeater by pre-wiring it somehow to make it more aesthetically pleasing to avoid ruffling the feathers of the HOA nerds?

Also, I’m moving to Eagle, ID and I believe there’s already an open repeater in Star, ID, which is only a few miles away (WRWL557) with a 25-mile range. Should I not even bother since I can use that one, or should I just add another for personal use? 

I was just wanting to buy one of those pre-made repeater bundles and set it up. Am I getting in over my head, or just getting my feet wet?

It should be noted that I’m a GMRS noob so go easy on me and thanks to all of you in advance for the input and advice.

The main goal if I do this is to keep it as inconspicuous as possible, if possible.

[WRQC527]

23 minutes ago, Jarrow said:

pre-wiring it somehow to make it more aesthetically pleasing to avoid ruffling the feathers of the HOA nerds

Unless you have some weird ASSociation with X-ray vision to see through walls, your problem would be the antenna, not the repeater. The repeater itself is inside, out of sight. The idea with repeaters is to get the antenna up high enough to make it "visible", if you will, to other radios. Most ASSociations with antenna restrictions would have a meltdown if you put the antenna where it can be seen, especially if it was high enough to make it effective as a repeater antenna. Being that there is already a repeater near you, yes, it might be redundant, but that has never stopped anyone from setting up a GMRS repeater. They're not coordinated like amateur radio repeaters are, so you just need to be careful that yours isn't interfering with an existing repeater.

[WRXP381]

1st why any one would live in a hoa in the first place and why any one would build a home in an hoa is beyond me.  We should be boycotting these freedom robbers at every turn.  It’s your home.  You should be able to do what you want in it.  It’s like your building your home in prison on purpose 

 

2nd a repeater usually only benefits others and not you.  If you can’t get your antenna up high with good line of site it will do very little good anyway.  I’d concentrate on (not living in an hoa) getting a good base station set up with good coax and a good antenna in the attic.  It will work but you’re going to severely neuter your transmit ability.  

[Sshannon]

9 hours ago, Jarrow said:

I’m building a new house (in an HOA) and wondering if there’s a more inconspicuous way to set up a repeater by pre-wiring it somehow to make it more aesthetically pleasing to avoid ruffling the feathers of the HOA nerds?

Also, I’m moving to Eagle, ID and I believe there’s already an open repeater in Star, ID, which is only a few miles away (WRWL557) with a 25-mile range. Should I not even bother since I can use that one, or should I just add another for personal use? 

I was just wanting to buy one of those pre-made repeater bundles and set it up. Am I getting in over my head, or just getting my feet wet?

It should be noted that I’m a GMRS noob so go easy on me and thanks to all of you in advance for the input and advice.

The main goal if I do this is to keep it as inconspicuous as possible, if possible.

First, why do you think you want a repeater instead of just a base station?  In either case any modifications you make while building will work well for either. If it’s going to be a long run of feedline, consider using hardline to minimize cable losses. 

Second, this is such a great opportunity to include structural and electrical support for an antenna, lighting protection, and proper bonding for your radio electronics.  If you go on to become a ham you’ll be set. 

Third, closely review your HOA agreement and state and county laws to see what they say about antennas. Not all HOAs ban ham radio antennas and some government entities prohibit HOAs from infringing on certain types of antennas. Also the ARRL is constantly supporting legislation that restores some level of antenna freedom to people affected by HOA restrictions.

 

 

39 minutes ago, WRXP381 said:

1st why any one would live in a hoa in the first place and why any one would build a home in an hoa is beyond me.  We should be boycotting these freedom robbers at every turn.  It’s your home.  You should be able to do what you want in it.  It’s like your building your home in prison on purpose 

Although I agree in principle with your disdain for HOAs banning antennas, you are victim blaming. He said he’s a noob to GMRS and asked us to take it easy.
He might not have known that someday he would want an antenna. Lately some of your answers have been way out on the superior judgmental horse’s ass end of the spectrum.

[WRWE456]

To add to what has already been said it sounds like a base station is what you really need. The problem as you have stated is getting antenna high enough. With an antenna above the roof you stand a good chance of reaching said near by repeater which will extend your range. Again antenna's work best when they can "see" each other. Line of sight (L.O.S.) That's why the best performing repeaters are located high on hills/mountains or towers/tall buildings.

If you could put a roof top antenna up then you could run conduit in the walls from your desired radio location/room to the location on the outside wall near the peak of the roof where the antenna will go. That will allow you to pull cable through it later. You will want to keep the run as short as possible, and don't forget about grounding. There is a fair bit of research you should do first however on proper wiring.

[Jarrow]

Thanks for all the answers and help! Yeah, maybe just a base station is all I need. I’ll go over the HOA laws and see what they say and do some more research on what I need and how to set it up, I figured I’d start here first. I agree about HOAs, they seem more bad than good and they’re a bit of a double-edge sword. We have a 1 & 3-year old so I wanted sidewalks and there’s a park behind us and across the street for them to play. Plus there will hopefully be other parents with little kids around so our younglings have friends to play with, but I digress.

I mainly just wanted to turn on my GMRS when we go out on a walk or drive and be able to talk like that vs pulling out my phone. 

Thanks again for all your help. Time to do more research on the YouTubes.

[WSAM454]

If your home will have an "attic" space, then that would be the highest point you will have it you can't mount the antenna outside.   If it is a crawl space type, then your best bet may be a  mobile type or a "J-pole" type antenna in that space.  Appliance/HVAC wiring through that space can possibly interfere with your reception (or the radio can interfere with the appliances)  so it still may not be ideal.

Yes, read all the HOA info very carefully!  There may be appearance objections to an 'unsightly' antenna, or health objections, to having a 'dangerous' RF source in the community.    Good luck!

[WRWE456]

28 minutes ago, Jarrow said:

I mainly just wanted to turn on my GMRS when we go out on a walk or drive and be able to talk like that vs pulling out my phone. 

Radio requires experimentation. You just have to try it to learn what works and what does not. As with many things start with the basics then work your way up as you learn more. Start with your hand held radios and learn how to use them effectively. You will learn a lot.

[WRUU653]

I also think a base station may be your best bet. This said if you have an idea of where in the home you think you might want your radio I would consider pre running the cable down the wall to said location or a conduit chase into the attic that can help route your cable cleanly without fishing walls after the fact. Especially if your home is going to be more than one story and you want your base in some room down stairs. Good luck and congratulations on the new home. 

[Jarrow]

So the CCRs say no external antennae of any kind, not even a satellite dish unless approved first. Since our house is one the first few being built, I’m guessing it’s gonna be a big fat “N-O” haha. Oh well, best case is the house has an RV bay with a 16-foot ceiling so maybe I can put one inside unless that’s basically pointless. I think we’ll just use our handheld radios for now(KG-905Gs w/ Nagoya 771G antennas) and try out that repeater that’s literally only a couple miles away in Star.

Thank you all for sharing your time, knowledge and experience with me. Very much appreciated!

[WRDJ205]

Would a “ghost” style antenna be noticed?   Only about 3” tall.  On top of a RV bay it would be pretty hard to see.  

[Jarrow]

2 minutes ago, WRDJ205 said:

Would a “ghost” style antenna be noticed?   Only about 3” tall.  On top of a RV bay it would be pretty hard to see

oh wow, that’s a good point!

[WRWE456]

Keep in mine with those 771G whip antennas it is even more important to keep them vertical while transmitting. The stock antennas are usually more forgiving of off vertical holding of the radio. Try the stock ones first.

[Jarrow]

3 minutes ago, WRWE456 said:

Keep in mine with those 771G whip antennas it is even more important to keep them vertical while transmitting. The stock antennas are usually more forgiving of off vertical holding of the radio. Try the stock ones first.

Oh, I didn’t know that. Thanks!

[WRXB215]

14 minutes ago, WRWE456 said:

Try the stock ones first.

There are also 701G antennas. Better than a lot of stock antennas but not as long as the 771. Nagoya and Abbree both make a 771G but only Nagoya makes a 701G so far. They both make the 771 UV and 701 UV. I've tried both of those on a UV-5R GMRS and they both worked quite well. No doubt the G version will work better.

[Darmie]

Not sure how far along this bill is making it if at all. "The Amateur Radio Emergency Preparedness Act of 2024" I know you're referring to GMRS however, this may fall in line with being prepared and maybe, just maybe GMRS operator would have the same rights with antennas where an HOA can not prohibit you from antenna installs. This law should have already existed. 

[PRadio]

1 hour ago, Jarrow said:

So the CCRs say no external antennae of any kind, not even a satellite dish unless approved first. Since our house is one the first few being built, I’m guessing it’s gonna be a big fat “N-O” haha. Oh well, best case is the house has an RV bay with a 16-foot ceiling so maybe I can put one inside unless that’s basically pointless. I think we’ll just use our handheld radios for now(KG-905Gs w/ Nagoya 771G antennas) and try out that repeater that’s literally only a couple miles away in Star.

Thank you all for sharing your time, knowledge and experience with me. Very much appreciated!

Just so you know, an HOA, or even a municipality cannot regulate satellite dish antennas under one meter in diameter unless you are in Alaska where you can have any size antenna. This does not apply to other services though. There are safety related things that can be regulated, even then they cannot require prior approval.  "A valid enforceable placement preference should not contain prohibited provisions such as prior approval or require professional installation. "   Here is the FCC page with all the information. https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule

[RayP]

With growing children, a small attic antenna (provided you aren't using a metallic roof) hooked to a repeater might be great for your family, or other friends in the neighborhood to use.  Something like the low-power (5-10 watt) Midland or similar repeater would allow for decent portable-to-portable coverage around the neighborhood, especially with something like the tiny WLN KDC1 ht's.  Yeah, they technically are ham radios but I "hear" they work great on GMRS freqs if programmed for that.    Of course I have no actual experience using them for such.

[SvenMarbles]

I absolutely hate the idea of living in an HOA as a radio hobbyist. But nothing thrills me more than the challenge of evading it with stealthy antennas and such . It reminds me of my younger days of living in apartments, and in one case lying to the manager that I was getting cable, gaining access to the roof, and creating a clandestine longwire for HF. No questions ensued about the newly stapled coax leading into apartment 3 west..

There's an actual whole market niche for "HOA stealth" ham radio antennas. Have a look at those and see if there's anything applicable for your use case.

[BoxCar]

If the antenna is installed as part of the construction process it could be argued as an architectural feature.

[tcp2525]

The best advice one can give is to install several runs of the largest diameter conduit in the walls so you can pull wires between floors from basement to attic and everything in between. This way you will have an easy time deploying whatever you plan now and in the future. Conduit is extremely cheap and installing it while under construction is easy and painless. As for a repeater in your situation, don't expect the signal traveling very far. If you can't get the antenna at an optimal height you will be limited to a few miles. Still install the conduit, though.

[WRYZ926]

I have seen some disguise shorter antennas to look like vent pipes. Just a thought for those dealing with HOA's.

Running large conduit is a good idea. Just make sure there is enough room to pull the cable and also the PL259 connectors through, especially if you ever plan on running more than one cable in conduit. I will also suggest using the grey PVC conduit designed for electrical wiring since the curve fitting are a gentle curve versus sharp curves lie standard water PVC pipe fittings.

[RayP]

49 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

I have seen some disguise shorter antennas to look like vent pipes. Just a thought for those dealing with HOA's.

Running large conduit is a good idea. Just make sure there is enough room to pull the cable and also the PL259 connectors through, especially if you ever plan on running more than one cable in conduit. I will also suggest using the grey PVC conduit designed for electrical wiring since the curve fitting are a gentle curve versus sharp curves lie standard water PVC pipe fittings.

Great idea!  There used to be a company that made such antennas for VHF and UHF ham applications.  I believe their name was Ventenna, or something like that.  If they are still in business, surely they could be persuaded to make a GMRS version.

 

Edit:  Sorry.  I just read elsewhere that the gentleman who owned Ventenna retired and closed up.

[SvenMarbles]

As an aside from this topic directly. I've read that the ARRL lobby is working in the courts to make it illegal for HOAs to tell people that they're not allowed to have antennas. It could become a non-factor in the near future...

[nokones]

You might want to look into a fake chimney or a mini church steeple made out of materials that won't attenuate the signal much. Or a fake pine tree or whatever tree type you have in the area. I doubt that there are many Palm Trees in your area. Look around and see what are the Cellular Companies are using to disguised antennae and towers.

Your electrical plans should include a proper grounding and arrestor systems.

Also plan for future electrical needs. And your electrical circuits should be dedicated and not shared with other circuits.