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I'm sure many agree... Thanks to the folks who make myGMRS.com tick. This include creators, admins, and forum repliers/readers. myGMRS.com is an enjoyable, good GMRS resource.

Though I've mentioned this as a side item in various posts, I wanted to take the time to create a specific post to spotlight my favorite youtube channel for GMRS info, including equipment. I'm speaking of NotaRubicon Productions. The owner of that channel is a down to earth guy by the name of Randy. His channel has good things going for it: + Good Production. Good lighting. Good mics. A sense of humor. A born-to-do-this delivery ability. Aspiring YT channel stars, take note. + Good Information. The good production attributes mentioned above can help bring people into a channel and make them want to return. But that is not enough. There has to be relevant information delivered to the point. Randy does this. It's obvious that manufacturers are aware of him and the fact that he is an influencer. When Randy gives a thumbs up for a radio model, buyers snap them up. When he mentions problems with newly introduced radios, manufacturer's fix them fast. I have no connection with Randy or his YT channel. Just wanted to share a good GMRS youtube channel for those interested.

tl:dr: Some CCRs are really bad clinkers while others work reasonably well. That's the same situation as anything coming out of China, though. They'll make anything you ask them to make at whatever price point you want it to meet. So read reviews and test reports on this (or any) radio. If they work alright and seem well built then don't worry about the architecture. Long answer: Don't get wrapped around the axle about SoC or similarly the terms direct conversion, direct sampling, SDR, hybrid, double conversion, heterodyne, etc. The words are thrown around indiscriminately. Basically a good radio is a good radio no matter its architecture while a bad radio will be bad regardless. The RDA1846 chip that most of these radios use can perform adequately if the design is sound otherwise. It's one particular frequency agile wideband RF chip but not the only by far. There's tons of them now, some that cover HF to SHF. One I'm familiar with is an Analog Devices part that can TX and RX on 2x2 MIMO from 70 MHz to 6 GHz. It's not something intended for cheap consumer HTs though. The chip is $300 alone and a drop-in SoM (System on a Module) is $1,600... You might generalize saying it's easier to make a straight superheterodyne radio that performs fine but is less expensive. Mostly it's reliability and build quality that suffers. After decades of engineering churn there's not much fat left to cut in the fundamental architecture to significantly improve performance so all you're left with is using cheaper components. So it won't last as long being tossed around but the actual RF performance is indistinguishable otherwise. But such a radio is inflexible and doesn't lend itself to adaption to something else. DSP techniques are still evolving and proprietary. So there's a lot more ways to screw up a direct conversion radio. Algorithms and firmware are where established companies (Motorola, Harris, Yaesu, Kenwood, whomever) can really distance themselves from competitors. Motorola is probably using direct conversion in the XPR7000 and EVX models and it works well. But then again no one other than Motorola knows really what is inside their ASICs to know for sure. But the guts don't matter, they aren't able to bend the laws of economics, physics or engineering. What matters is where the rubber meets the road - does it work or not? And if they can do it other companies can, too. In fact Harris builds most of the high performance, high reliability radios for the military and one portable example, the AN/PRC-152 (Falcon III), is a highly frequency nimble (covers 30-512 MHz and 762-870 MHz without gaps) 5 watt TX SDR that can do several analog and digital modes, some of which (like APCO-25, amongst other things) were added with a firmware upgrade after the radio was accepted and put into service. That sort of flexibility is why SDR is where it's at. The reason these CCRs proliferate is once a basic design is done they can adapt it to just about anything. That comes with up- and downsides. They can just make them faster and cheaper or they can add interesting form factors or features, whatever. And even heterodyne architecture have DSP, so the line isn't really that distinct to say this-or-that. If you're still interested after that diatribe you can start digging into the engineering behind various architectures and RF generally here: https://analog.intgckts.com/wireless-receiver-architectures/

Quality isn't free. It takes time and money to develop many of the things you believe should be available in a $20 radio. Some of those features may, at some point, trickle down to bottom tier radios but it would only happen after the costs of the initial development and testing had been paid for. Bottom end radios are just that, bottom end. Many are poor reverse engineered copies of more expensive offerings by other manufacturers but then again, they are poorly engineered copies that will not have any quality components or testing other than it powered up - sometimes.

As long as a licensed operator is "in control" of the station it is permissible for an unlicensed person to use your radio. In other services, the licensed operator would establish contact and then hand the mic to the other person. While the rules are a little vague, the use of a call sign is limited to the actual person holding the license. That does not preclude an unlicensed person calling your call sign and identifying themselves as "Unit X."

As I mentioned in the paragraph I inserted at the top of my original post, I created this current reply you're reading as a summary section. If/as additional points are made which could aid manufacturers and buyers, I will edit and update this same section. Here is the running list, in no particular order: • Ability to store multiple versions of a GMRS repeater frequency with different tones is good • No arbitrary limit of how many of the above can be stored • To expand on the second point immediately above, careful about designing arbitrary limits in general • Tones should be specific for each memory and not across-the-board • When designing more capable "non-bubble-pack" radios, provide wide band and narrow band capability, not narrow band only • Double check firmware before new radios are released or when updating firmware. (E.g., don't release radios with access tones or narrow band set in memories.) • Careful about proprietary designs. (E.g., naming tones with proprietary names may be ok for bubble pack radios, but for more capable radios I'd stick with naming conventions such as 107.2, D025N, etc.) • Memory banks/groups are nice • Test OEM radio programming software adequately before releasing it. These are often released with obvious, main-function bugs. It's one thing to not catch more obscure error legs, but main-function bugs should be detected and fixed during testing. • OEM programming software should support a good, 21st century UI experience, such as copy/pasting • Good documentation please. Missing, pertinent information is frustrating. So is poor English. • The ability to field program a radio (including frequencies) using its keypad and/or knobs is desirable • For mobile radios, please use a DIN style mic connector. This is the type which has a strain-relieved cable and a rotating, threaded, locking collar. This is more robust than the RJ-45 style of connector. • Attention-to-detail niceties enhance a user's experience. Examples can be found in the "Examples of Good Execution" portion of the original post. • Admittedly my personal opinion: non-bubble-pack radios should look professional/commercial rather than gimmicky • HTs should be stable (i.e., not prone to tipping over) when placed vertically on a flat surface. E.g., the end should be squared off, not rounded.

Yep, a frequency entry is a tiny byte array. We will remember the brands who can't accommodate a simple design element like this.

My son-in-law just got a GMRS license assigned today. He ordered a KG-905G which is what I have. I live at around 3300 foot elevation and he lives around 2600 feet elevation 3.72 miles away. There is a ridge between us that tops at around 3220 ft. Where the ridge is, it puts about 80 feet of land/rock/trees in the way of being direct line of sight. We are able to talk to each other on high power (5w) at full quieting. He has a FRS/GMRS bubble pack radio that I think is 2w and I could hear him with static while he could hear the 5w with no static. He was outside while I was on my couch. A certain YouTube hobo has shown the couch makes the difference. When my son-in-law went inside there was a little static but we were both easily understandable. I am thinking he doesn't have a GMRS couch. There is a place in the high country at around 7500 feet elevation that is a little over 12 miles from my house and is clearly visible with no obstructions. Next time I am up there I will give it a test, although I am sure 5w will cover that easily. Sean

I wouldn't touch any radio from which the original tags had been removed... ?

To think you can do that and a lot more with just a Raspberry Pi these days!

WyoJoe, thanks for the reply and providing additional insights [which echo mine] regarding the NotaRubicon channel.

I agree with the post from mrgrms above. I have found Randy's YouTube channel to be the primary channel I go to for all things GMRS, and his off-roading content is pretty good, too. Most of the off-roading content is SoCal related, so if you're in Southern California, and looking for this type of thing, I'd recommend checking it out. Of course, the main reason I've visited his channel is for the informative, yet humorous, content related to GMRS radios and radio usage. He explains things in a way that it should be easy to understand for beginners, yet informative enough that more advanced users would appreciate it too.

There are Motorola training videos if you have an MOL subscription *oops, MOL is going away, replaced by PartnerHub and the Learning Management Platform. I will tell you that the Motorola training videos don't really show you much of how to build a codeplug for any specific purpose. They're very general, and they'll give a few pointers, but most of what I've learned over 15+ years messing with DMR has been by poking around and experimenting. Analog is pretty simple and straightforward, but the Digital stuff can drive you nuts until you figure what ticking one checkbox does to 10 other parameters. There's a few videos on the Utube that will help you out for a few specifics like setting up IP Site Connect or building a Capacity Plus codeplug, and there are sample codeplugs out there for some of the more popular DMR Ham platforms that will get you 90% of the way to what you want without spending a bunch of nights typing in 1000 contacts and 15 zones. You can also give Wayne Holmes blog a look, he's probably the best free resource you'll find for Motorola. He's also got a few videos online that are better (In my opinion) than what Motorola puts out. https://cwh050.blogspot.com/

I figured it had something to do with CTCSS and DCS, gonna try to figure out how to turn those off if they’re not already. Good intel. I was actually in Greensboro last week and did hear that repeater until I was about 20 miles north of Asheboro. My current project is in Hampstead which is 16 miles north of Wilmington and I’ve yet to hear anything but construction crews on the FRS channels out that way.

Best thing is look in the service manual. If its possible the manual will explain how its done. Looking briefly it appears the answer is no to your question. http://manuals.repeater-builder.com/Kenwood/tk/TK-8360/TK-8360(H)(K2_M2)_B51-8964-00.pdf As a matter of practice I spend time hunting down all the relevant documentation, in PDF format, for any radios I have or plan on buying. I have a library of folders for each radio/model series with user guides, service manuals, notes, FCC grants, modifications if any and manufactures brochures. The last one is the first thing I look for when thinking about purchasing a used radio. Excellent source for features, exact frequency ranges, on UHF it's common to have more that one, number of memory channels etc. If I don't like what I see then I've saved myself some money by not getting something I won't like or can't use. https://pdfs.kenwoodproducts.com/30/TK-7360HV-8360HUBrochure.pdf http://manual.kenwood.com/files/53d7482397066.pdf https://fccid.io/K44415502

No. One input frequency and one output frequency (aka “Repeater Pair”) at at time. And despite the ability to change frequencies on the radio, expect performance to suffer if you set the radio’s frequency to something other than what the internal duplexer has been optimized for. Hope that helps. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Glad to see a little confirmation to what I strongly suspected (and have alluded to a bit lately)...between the current state of things, and info I've run across on both both wouxun and retevis regarding quantity buying, I've had a hunch it was really the distributors more to thank than just the manufacturer. I know BTWR also has a strong presence on Reddit gathering feedback, I'm fairly sure bettersaferradio does also. That combined with another distributors experiences theyve been quite public about. While I do have a little issue with some of BSR's marketing (all the "SHTF!" and similar buzzwords), I can't fault their or BTWR's efforts at getting better products to the market. It's kind of cool seeing the market finally get a little focus on better products, and i do think there's room to get above the bare minimum and keep an easy to use radio for the basic simplex crowd while including enough features for the somewhat more advanced user (and spreading the cost across both)...the current growth of options would seem to support that.

What was the flaws? I am curious because I also have KG-905G and wondering if it has the same flaws that you discovered or if it the fixed one.

A good portion of the support costs for a product can be distributed over a group of radios using common components and design firmware in the unit. That would allow products such as programming software would have a common core with modules linked in for different versions to support addition features on higher end units.

I think that sums up the markets they're mostly aiming for...."if you need more, oh well" Which...agrees with the above....they have markets they're aiming for, and make a product good enough for those markets, and that's it. On split tones, I've run across a couple out here that used it as a control for whether the repeater would link or be in standalone mode (more common on the ham side), and spotted a a few in the database. I've also run across comments of repeater owners that did it with the specific intent of excluding Midland users from their system (this may go back to the lack of licensE issue too, general inexperience, or both).

I think your forgetting for decades GMRS radios were simple radios and most if not all were 8 channel with repeater and TA. Many did not eve allow programming. My Unidens have a dip switch for CTCSS and it can only use that CTCSS in all channels. Later on I got the programmable Uniden. I couldn't program it and had to take it to a 2 way shop to have PL set via computer. I can assure you it wasn't cheap to do GMRS then either. There was no $25.00 radios around, nor cheap mobiles. Over the years many serious GMRS users switched to Part 90 radios. Those still cost a lot of money, but with the narrowband changes it has put alot of that gear reasonable on the secondary markets. Lets fast forward 20 years to now. GMRS is the new craze, not because of new products or quality systems but because the rules got changed and now some folks that are promoting GMRS doesn't even know what GMRS was for in the past. In the 4x4 world they are pushing GMRS with mobiles as its better than CB. 99% of that is simplex. Midland doesn't care as many others about wide vs narrow. As long as it talks to there other offerings they are happy. While I agree GMRS market could use some good quality radios, your never going to see it as everyone wants cheap. The CCR mentality ruined it for manufacturers trying to stay in the market. As you said $400 is too rich for you. Many are in same boat, however many spend way more than that on gear and use it daily. I have said over and over if you want quality communications spend money. We tend to loose folks from the service because they think this is something that will do miracles, but they cheap out and find out it doesn't do what they want. For some its not an issue. I can attest some folks also dont know any better. I'll use my parents. I installed the midland radios in there Class C, and both vehicles. I have the Midland MTX275 in both my Jeeps. Why. Simple Easy to use radios. All my parents know is when going down the road behind me they talk on the channel. When at home they go to another channel to use my repeater. My jeeps have it because Jeep Jamboree has switched from CB to GMRS. We use simplex and that's it. No one knows the frequency or PL, they just say a channel number.

Many of those people that are waiting for that huge-price decrease are the same ones that will drive 20 miles out of their way and burn $4.00 in fuel to save $0.02 per gallon at the gas station..

It cost every one of us 2 cents per day to buy our GRMS license from the FCC; how long should you wait for it to cost 1 cent per day?!?

If there isnt a lot of RF noise/weak signals in your area you wont notice.. I'm a "SuperHet Snob" but I've been using my 935G for a few days now and abostively love it, SOC or not.

I was driving from Pennsylvania to Wisconsin today, and I was monitoring channels 15-22. I originally was monitoring all channels, but I was getting super-local chatter, and I was mostly interested in high-power simplex and repeater traffic. When I heard something, it got me thinking. What repeater are they using? That gave me an idea for an app or a web page. I downloaded the GMRS repeater database, and made some *really* crude JavaScript. I whipped this thing up in an hour, and it's embarrassing, but it works! Showing is probably easier than telling... It's just a web page that gets your location from the browser, and then looks up the closest repeater on each channel. Right now I'm only showing the basics, but there's no reason I couldn't show the "tone in" and also have a link to the repeater details. Useful? Did I just reinvent something? I didn't make it public since I'm not sure what the licensing is for the GMRS database. If someone knows, let me know. Or, if the owner wants to reach out, lets chat.

I think the KG-935G looks very good and very serious. Its nice to see user experience being taken in to consideration for how the products will actually be used.

Video review from Randy (NotaRubicon Productions). He is very funny guy: "No Chinglish here"

. I've had good luck with mine. https://www.miklor.com/COM/Review_DMR-Amps.php

When I come across people like this, I reminded why I hate communicate with human......