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You're quite welcome for the information, and don't feel bad. When I first got into GMRS I picked up one of the Nagoya UT-72G antennas based on other people's recommendations. I got two from two different resellers and they were both junk. The SWRs for simplex were 1.77:1, and at the repeater inputs it was almost 2.10:1. Some will say anything under 2:1 is okay, but i just wasn't comfortable using something that was that far off, when I knew there was better. I did have people tell me I got the wrong antenna, that I got the UT-72 (2m/70cm) by ignorance. However I have that antenna as well, so I had a direct comparison (at the end of this post). The UT-72 performs slightly better than the UT-72G on GMRS. Having invested in the quality equipment (the RigExpert), it really lets me know exactly what is going on. I did my testing on three different vehicles, all with more than enough area for a ground plane, and got the same results for both antennas (UT-72G) on all three vehicles. Where some initial mistakes were made was using an inexpensive inline SWR meter, the Surecom SW102. It's good for confirming your TX frequency and power (when used with a 50Ω dummy load), and that's about all I trust it for. Others have had measured success with them, but when compared to a quality antenna analyzer, they just don't hold up. At least that is what I have found with my use of them, YMMV. I use 3.25" bases with both of my 32" antennas and have no issues, even at highway speeds. You have to be careful with the base size, as I have found that too large of a magnetic base will impact your tuning. For example I helped a person that purchased a 6" mag mount, and from experience I could tell before we did any trimming of his Laird BB4503 that something was wrong. The SWR's were way too high, and the "shape" (peaks/valleys) were in the wrong places. We switched them to a 3.25" base and the antenna went to where it should have been. The reason is, I believe, and more knowledgeable persons on here can correct me if I am wrong, is that due to the requirement of needing at least 1/4 wavelength ground plane (about 6.3" / 16cm), the diameter of the base was interfering with the ground plane itself. For reference, this is the mag mount that I use, which has 12' of RG8X, and is paired with the BB4505CN or BB4502N. Laird TE Connectivity GB8X I also have this base with 12' of RG58/U, with the removable rubber boot, and pair it with the BB4505C or the BB4503. Laird TE Connectivity GBR8PI The GB8PI is the same as the GBR8PI, but without the rubber boot. So you're basically being charged $7-8 for the boot, which isn't required, nor does it hurt its performance. Now, I do say "as a reference" because The Antenna Farm is closed until Summer of 2024, but they are still an excellent resource. An alternative mount, which I have yet to hear anything negative about is the Midland MXTA12 mag mount. It is also more readily available, and is 3.5" in diameter. To go further with that, Midland's MXTA26 GMRS NMO antenna is also an excellent performer, and requires no tuning. These two items are very often paired with each other. I have Midland's MXTA13 mag mount, which is a 1/4λ, with a 1" magnet, 6" mast, and 20' of spaghetti (RG-174) for coax. It performs better than I ever would have given it credit for, even with the massive amount of attenuation from the coax, which is about 20dB per 100', which is a lot. However it works in a pinch for temporary use, and over flat terrain I can hit repeaters 30 miles away with just 15w. As mentioned above (both antennas on the same vehicle, positioned in the same place). Sweep is 400-500 MHz. Red - Nagoya UT-72G Blue - Nagoya UT-72

I have one of these, without the spring, so the BB4505CN. IIRC, they make two "spring" versions. One has a steel spring, the BB4505CNS/B4505CNS, and one with an elastomer spring BB4505CNS(R)/B4505CNS(R). The springs are not-so-much for wind loading, but in case you hit something with it, like a garage door header or tree branches. I intentionally got the "no ground plane required" version for a car that has very little area for the ground plane. The antenna works great, since the bottom half serves as the ground plane, with the signal propagating from the top half above the coil. The trimming chart on the package is accurate, and I've found that my final trimmed length is usually within 0.0625" (1/16th) to 0.125" (1/8th) listed on the chart (typically longer). That is with 12' of RG8X on a mag mount, and using a RigExpert Stick Pro (antenna analyzer). I have mine cut to favor repeater inputs rather than simplex, since that is where it is used most. In reality I could have aimed for center-band and would never notice a difference. My SWRs are 1.5:1 or less from 457 MHz up to 478 MHz, the lowest being 1.06:1 @ 465.6000 MHz The Return Loss chart shows a more accurate reading of the tuning: For this vehicle I also have the BB4502N, which is also a very good performer for its length (~ 10"), but it is 1/2λ, not 5/8λ. Additionally I have the BB4503 (5/8λ) and the BB4505C for another vehicle which does have sufficient area for the ground plane, and those also have excellent performance. In the event that you (or others) are curious, here is a direct comparison of the BB4505CN to the BB4505C, covering a 30 MHz bandwidth. Green line is the BB4505CN, and the orange line is the BB4505C. Some people say I like Laird antennas, and they would be correct.

As long as no one quotes the people on the ignore list, it's like they don't exist. It can be a pleasant change.

Schools can't be licensed for Part 95 or 97. They can license under both 90.20 and 90.37.

You might have heard that someone had to 'buy back' an entire system over the issues with the interference that it was causing and getting from surrounding agencies. I have first hand knowledge of that system. Those issues were also why the APX line of radios never received the ability to do DMR. That family of radios were built for public safety in mind of course. And Motorola didn't want to even go down that road for interoperability. I know of a Motorola shop owner that did setup a TRBO system after all the mess happened. He told me that M said if it didn't work, they would pull his dealership from him. He was a very accomplished RF engineer, and his system did work without issue. But it was not a case of just taking out the analog repeaters and dropping in DMR on the same frequencies and power levels. Some of the original frequencies were reused, but some couldn't be. And the whole thing was re-engineered. Different antenna's at different heights, and power levels were all significantly reduced. But DMR requires a different mentality and effort than old school analog radio where you run as much power as allowed as high on the tower as you can. This is another concern that I, to this point, have been reluctant to bring up with DMR on GMRS. GMRS users typically do subscribe to the 'height is might' mentality with strong reliance on power. We hear guys complaining that there 50 watt radio only does 48 watts on their meter (coax loss in the test jumper is the typical cause) and wanting those extra 2 watts. With that line of thinking, dumping DMR into GMRS in a suburban or urban environment WILL cause interference problems of course. And getting the max power thought process out of peoples heads isn't going to be possible. So there is yet another reason to steer clear of the whole idea of DMR on GMRS.

I have had/used every brand of GMRS radio in my Jeep(s) and almost every model of every brand, and for Part 95 "GMRS" radios, I prefer the Wouxun KG1000G. It is a better quality radio than BTech and most (maybe all) the other brands, it outputs a full 50W, and has a remote-mount removable faceplate. Several of my off-road friends use this radio and they are all happy with it. And FYI - even though its spelled Wooks-On, it's pronounced "Ocean" .

Wow, so I finally broke down and added three specific individuals to my 'Ignore" list, and *man* is this a much more useful and enjoyable forum all of a sudden!

First, I've had nothing good experiences with The Antenna Farm as well, and hope to see them get back on track in the new year. Second, most of the mag mounts I've used have been the mxta12's, and they've worked well for me, both on that 32" 2x5/8 wave Browning, and the 36" long comet 2x4sr. They've hung on fine on the roof of my little truck even close to 90mph, along with dragging a signal stalk across all the ceiling beams in the 7' clearance parking structure at work (5 or 6 floors worth, depending where I found a spot). The only time it actually came off in the year I had it up was once, with a direct hit on the comet on a solid (2"+ diameter) tree branch

Correct, the payload is the only ting typically encrypted, but the 'repeaters' in a conventional system are also transparent to the data stream. They look at the signal to see that it's P25 and nothing else. If it's a 'system' then the data stream is further processed to see that the talkgroup ID and radio ID are encrypted before allowing the traffic to pass. But if you stand up a stand alone Quantar repeater in P25, and run encryption on the subscribers, the repeater doesn't care or even have the ability to look at the data stream. Now the headers which carry the ID are NOT encrypted typically. This becomes apparent when you have a radio that isn't encrypted listening to the secure traffic. The transmitting radio ID will be displayed, but the audio is muted since there is no way for the receiving radio that's not encrypted or doesn't have the proper key in it to decrypt the radio traffic. As mentioned, to have 'wireline' control of the repeater, it requires a DIU with encryption in the DIU to communicate via wireline encrypted. The repeater isn't encrypting the traffic, that is done by the DIU and the encrypted data stream is fed directly to the repeater and it puts that stream on the air.

Thank you for the followup and information. I'll be getting the B4505CN chrome whip. It should be easier to tune and match that antenna too and hopefully they'll recommend me to keep this magnamount. I really like it and quite strong and 1/3 of a size of a K40 Magnamount. Its got a rubber feet, 12 ft LMR-195 cable and high grade connector. Th lenght is more than enough for my needs while I was getting a 1.02 SWR in the 450 frequency range. I hope this can handle the 32 inch Laird whip antenna too.. Heavy Duty Magnetic NMO Mount for CB, VHF, UHF, GMRS Radios with PL-259. RNMOM-195-SUM-B-12I-ST

Congrats. You've placed yourself in the pile of users that no one wants to help.

My only guess on those Hyteras (and it's totally a guess) would be that they are programmed for low power with either .5 or 1 watt on FRS channels. If your school does not have a specific frequency licensed with the FCC, some radio shops and dealers would just plug in some low power random FRS channels as a workaround instead of bothering with Licensing issues.

The XS20G will last for years. I know 4 friends that have had the BTech 50W GMRS radios in their Jeeps.. 3 of them have failed in 3 years or less. I know ~10 friends with Midlands, 1 has failed 3 years or less.. I know 20+ friends that have KG1000G or XS20G radios in their Jeeps, with 0 failures. The data is anecdotal, but, i think it shows a trend.

Looking at getting a mobile radio to install in my truck, leaning on Btech from talking to a few others but haven't decided on what model. Any recommendations are appreciated

Man, Moto is not even close to the same category as any of those radios. You are comparing radios that were $3,000 to $5,000 new, to radios that are $150 to $500 new. That is like comparing a an economy Honda to Bugatti. I am very fond of Wouxun, especially the KG-1000G. The brand stacks up very well when compared to Yaesu, but I think Yeasu makes a better radio with many more available features. I would put Wouxun on par with Icom, Kenwood, Alinco. I don't consider Anytone, Powerwerx or TYT in the same category of any of the aforementioned brands. They are really budget brand radios. I don't look down on them, but they just won't have the same longevity, features, durability, stability or performance as the higher tier brands. Also, I a assuming you are either asking for use an amateur bands or just general speaking. Moto is the only brand mentioned that has models that have the ability to be legally used in GMRS. All the other brands are good for amateur bands, and some will have LMR/business options, too.

So the first issue that they may be having is the fact the radios they have are in the Part 90 allocation. And do you know what frequency they are on? Could be VHF. could be UHF. Hard to say. All this has to do with the noise floor of the area around the facility. Rural area noise floors are typically going to be lower than urban areas. The type of license they have is also a consideration. If they are saddled with an itinerant license, their neighbors across the street may have the same frequencies as they do further limiting their ability to talk. Lastly, the squelch level of the radios they have, which is programmable only and not user adjustable may have a hand in the lack luster coverage they are experiencing. GMRS and HAM UHF frequencies are typically fairly quiet and the noise floor there is very low typically. Much lower than the noise floor in the part 90 allocated frequencies. But what I can tell you is this. There are a number of different radio services out there that are for different applications and users. FRS radios that are sold in a big box store in bubble packs are meant by the service they are attached to to NOT be used for commercial / government entity applications. Just because you can buy them across the counter doesn't mean they are for every application you can imagine. FRS specifically stands for FAMILY radio service. Meaning they are for family use in a similar way that a child's walkie-talkie is meant for that application and NOT as a radio system for public safety. Could you use kids walkie-talkies in a public safety situation? Sure, if the range was limited, and the interference was minimal, police could use them to communicate. But that's not what they are for, and if a police department was to use them for law enforcement activities and the FCC caught wind of it there would be some fall out over it. Same goes for FRS radios being used for school communications. It's not what that service was intended for. And improper use of a radio service is technically against the regulations. Now, mind you seeing any sort of enforcement with this is pretty far fetched, BUT if the FCC were to get wind of it and decide to levy fines to the schools for using the FRS service as their communications system, those fines could reach over 10K in short order. So messing about with things of this nature, not being aware of the regulations could get them in hot water. And while the FCC can't really come for you for violations, the school could seek to create a civil case against you for sending them that direction.

I'm very happy for the radio community has all this availability of nice radios with full of features, and people that will give you advises. I wish we had this back in the early 80's. I went to several "okay beginner" radio from radio shack and paid alot of money. My 2nd radio getting serious was a cobra 148. I paid $160.00 in 1985, brought it to the technician to set it so it can modulate correctly. That's $150.00, Roger beep is $75.00, D104 mike is $55.00, setting it to run with power coming form the radio(no battery needed), and adding an audio interface unit, putting it inside the radio, that's $45.00 for the unit plus labor. That's over $500 just to match the radio of today given only a 40 channel AM, SSB and added extra. When I saw the new radios today like what randy was showing on video, I just grabbed it and all done. $200-$250 youre running a sophisticated above novice mobile radio that is light years ahead of a cobra 19X or midland.

Check out the Radioddity DB20-G a/k/a Anytone AT-779UV: mini-mobile that fits in the palm of your hand, 20 watts, cigarette lighter plug, buttons on microphone $99-109. Many on this forum have them working reliably for years.

The RFMAX Magnamount that I use in the Laird is 86 ft. lbs. on specs. That's what Arcadian recommended me to use. Heavy Duty Magnetic NMO Mount for CB, VHF, UHF, GMRS Radios with PL-259. RNMOM-195-SUM-B-12I-ST When it cones to the radio, We'll just say, reputable US standards should meet or exceed specifications. Some Off shores can be a hit and miss.

Another vote for the KGXS-20G. I've had mine in my Wrangler for a couple years with no issues. I also have had a Btech 25X2. I lasted a year until the finals went out.

This could be it.

The Antenna Farm being closed doesn't help at all. I hope the owner is ok and recovers soon or someone else can take over until he can return. It's sad they couldn't find a way to keep it open in the interim.

Its under the strength of the K40 or Wilson 1000 (which is extra strong for its size). I cant compare it to the Little Wil for I haven't had one before. But it feels like it will handle it, I just want to double check since I been out of the loop. I calibrated the anytone. the SWR was on 1.02 and its drawing 22-1/2 watts.

I didn't know that @marcspaz thanks!

I have no idea of the legalities of using a gmrs repeater in a school/business scenario, but something like a Motorola GR1225 centralized in the school, with a good antenna seems like it would do the trick and they can be found for a few hundred dollars. Even the lower power r1225 (1w-11w) would probably work for that small of an area.

I guess I'm in the odd side of the thought process here but my "how to gmrs" for my parents was push mic button talk. use call sign. Done. For decades GMRs was for a private group/family only. Other than a radio tech showing us how to operate a new radio (back in the 2-6 channel days) thats all we needed to know. 95% of the GMRS repeaters were installed and maintained by radio shops and not home repeater. Now I see stuff has changed but in the end isn't it still about push mic talk listen ? Maybe those wanting the ham lite need more info but a lot of users are just talk listen radio to radio. I mean some of the trips I go on folks dont know how to put there jeep in 4Lo so I dont worry about the radio....

Audio problem fixed. My monitor is set off in receiving audio. I was messing with the repeater earlier...

oh you mean check the mic inside if its open circuit?

I gave an honest answer. I’m not sure what about my response bothered you but it’s an easy situation to rectify.

I did exactly that and I have a better understanding. Now I know what Cross tone it was looking for. Thanks NobaRubicon

Now that you have it working correctly in your radio, download that into CHIRP and you will see how CHIRP expects to see it/how to enter it.

I would go with the Wouxun KG-XS20G if you want a compact and durable mobile that is actually IP rated with an IP67 rating. Here is a good simple explanation of IP ratings: https://www.setra.com/blog/what-does-an-ip67-rating-mean Here is a photo of my XS20G mounted in my Honda Pioneer 500 UTV

No, not by regulation on the main channels. Most handhelds are limited to that but as a practical matter rather than regulations. Kenny is absolutely correct in his post below: Except for the weird case of Fixed Stations, which are fixed in location and may only communicate to other Fixed Stations - they are limited to 15 watts.

Agreed - from actual usage/experience. The XS20G is GREAT if you will be very dusty/wet environments - and it is very small which is great if dont have a lot of room. Also a few $$ less than the 1000G

Another good 20 watt mobile that is IP67 dust and water proof for right at $200 is the Wouxun KG-XS20G. https://www.amazon.com/Wouxun-KG-XS20G-Compact-Mobile-Radio/dp/B09WQK5FGN/ref=sr_1_4?crid=JWWAFV1QOW43&keywords=wouxun+gmrs+radio&qid=1701541677&s=electronics&sprefix=wouxun%2Celectronics%2C118&sr=1-4&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.17d9e15d-4e43-4581-b373-0e5c1a776d5d From personal experience, the Wouxun radios are better than the Baofeng radios. And I also prefer the Wouxun mobile radios over Midland radios. I am running the Wouxun KG-XS20G in my SxS and am also using two Wouxun KG-1000G Plus radios, one in my vehicle and the other as my base station.

Virtually all the GMRS radios from China come from 3 or 4 factories, so there is little difference between brands. The features are what set them apart, but a higher cost doesn't equate to better quality. The TYT DB-20 is a great radio that will meet the needs of about 80% of those looking for a small mobile.

Those Midland/Retevis repeaters have a very small internal duplexer that can barely create any decent isolation when the repeater is cranking more than 5 watts. There is no magic bullet. You are never going to find a good, cheap, compact duplexer that passes 95% of your transmitter power and still gives you 90+ dB of isolation. It doesn't exist. Every rookie with a wattmeter wants to get the MAXIMUM possible output power out of their repeater. I mean, 50 has to be better than 5, right? In my opinion, the MOST important spec in a repeater system is the isolation between transmit and receive. Especially if you're using portable radios out in the field that can talk back in with 4 or 5 watts of transmit power. What good is it to key up your repeater with 10 or 15 watts of power when you introduce 3 or 4 dB of desense into the system? 3dB of desense on the receiver just made your 4 watt portable into a 2 watt portable, and how well is that going to work? Better isolation = a better repeater. Want to have a cheap repeater? You will get what you paid for. Cheap is rarely good.

In Soviet Russia, radio monitors you.

Yeah, see, that's the opposite of what I envision. That's the rabbit hole I fell into when I started out, and like I said, it seems far more likely to drive normal people away than to get them functional... A new person getting started, like the kind targeted by the presentation I'm trying to prepare, and the one marcspaz admirably presented, doesn't need to read 150 pages on antenna theory. With ham, you're building a car. With GMRS, you just want to drive it. You need to understand a bit of technical theory to understand *why* you are doing what you are doing, but you don't need to be able to calculate ideal compression ratios to push the accelerator...

Hopefully you can still see my like.

Congress gave the FCC the right to get involved in local wireless communications, as well as justification to exist as an agency when they passed the Communications Act of 1934. And just FYI, complaining/arguing/chest-beating about it in an online forum wont change anything - If you really want to change/eliminate the FCC start by contacting your congressman or an attorney.

Yes, you can use voice almost everywhere. Most of the spectrum is for voice use. In 9 of the bands available, you can use voice, data and Morse Code / CW through the entire band. HF radio is amazing for long range communications. With general class privileges, you will be able to talk around the globe, day or night. The main reason I got into it was for emergency communications. I figure if there is a problem here, and help is needed, calling a station outside the impacted area is the best bet.

Not to mention the advantage of APRS is the infrastructure. 144.390 is all over the county, albeit lacking in some areas but its the same. We can't get repeaters to work together where are you going to find one frequency in GMRS to use all over the county and not interfere with someone else. Use HAM radio if you want to use APRS

Why and for what possible good reason? Once again, it sounds like someone wanting to turn GMRS, with its very limited bandwidth, into "ham radio lite". Rather than additionally trashing our already scarce bandwidth, why not get a book, study it for a week or few, and get your Technician license? Then play with gizmo gadgetry where there is adequate bandwidth and existing infrastructure for it until you heart is content

I WISH my callsign was that pretty! He should be thanking Xenu for what the FCCs hath blessed upon him.

In 2014 the FCC opened docket 14-180 to try and clean up Part 22 (the auctioned Paging & Radiotelephone Service, now popularly used by some governments as a supplement or substitute for Part 90 freqs when they're unavailable) rules Interestingly a good number of the commenters there were screaming "let us use Part 90 cert'd stuff on Part 22" in unison