Whats with repeater users needing permission on GMRS?

[JB007Rules]

Okay,

I’ll bite here.  I own a repeater (Rugged 575) in Naperville, IL at 300' receive / 250’ transmit.  It’s on a commercial site with other UHF and VHF radio systems as well.  Not only have I spent nearly 5 figures setting this up correctly but I monitor it as if it was my baby, cuz, you know, it *IS* my baby.  I built it with no financial help from anyone else.  Of course there was other help I received by LOTS of other commercial repeater owners (Those of you that are reading know who you are) as I’ve come a long way in the last year and some change here.  I have my repeater system set up for several different private family usage cases and I also have a tone for public which I closely monitor as well and others that are out there do use it.

 

As a repeater owner I’m super happy to turn my radio on and hear other people using it.  As a matter of fact just yesterday some other licensed GMRS users were using my repeater and I needed to use it with my wife as I was at the grocery store and I broke in and said, “hang tight guys, I need to talk to my wife for a minute.  I’ll let you know when I’m done”.  Anyways, I flipped to our tone, talked with her about the particulars, then went back to the public side and said “Carry on guys!  Glad to hear you out there using the machine”.

 

That being said, mine is set to “Ask permission” as well because as others have mentioned, I want to know who is using it to verify their license and location because it’s my system and it’s my responsibility to make sure it’s up to par on the commercial shared site.  I have sent an email back to EVERY! SINGLE! PERSON! As well welcoming them with the tones to use it!  I haven’t had the need (yet) to ever reject anyone from using my repeater but I still keep a tab on who has access to it as in my opinion, it’s my responsibility to do so.

 

Not only that, but I have my custom verbiage I send back with every request as well stating that this is a family repeater as well and to aid to traffic on the other PL tone.  Heck, I’ll paste what I send you can see where we are coming from with this:

 

“The tone for my repeater is XXXX (left blank) (N – normal, not inverted).

 

When you key up for the first time please identify yourself using your call sign and call for ROB.  I am regulating who is using my repeater as it is being used for my family as well.

 

I have received an exceeding amount of requests to use my repeater.  Originally this was set up for family only use but seeing as the range is far better than expected, I have opened it up on an as-requested basis to any licensed GMRS operator.  PLEASE NOTE:  ALL TRAFFIC MUST YIELD TO MY FAMILY.  The tone for public use is different than family so if you see your radio lighting up receiving on 462.575 but no audio is coming through on your radio it's because my family is talking so please do not key up until that traffic has cleared.

 

Thanks and I hope to hear you on the air!”

 

 

That being said, sometimes users don’t understand what a multi-table is either so I will say this too:  When you first use a new repeater you should ALWAYS call out for a radio check IMO because you don’t know how that repeater is set up and should NEVER assume anything!  I was in Iowa once and I made contact to the owner on the traveler tone (I was travelling) and he told me that it’s linked to another repeater in California!  NONE of this information was posted on mygmrs.com and upon googling I couldn’t even find it either!!!  It was good to know that I was keying multiple machines too and me and the owner had a nice long 30 minute conversation and he was glad I keyed up and shouted out!

 

To sum up further as a repeater owner:  *MOST*, but not *ALL* repeater owners don’t mind you using their machine I’ve found.  Now I’m in the Midwest mind you, so again, no assumptions would be made for other machines that I’ve never used, but around here most repeater owners are very happy to have you on their machine and it brings a great smile to their face to know that they are serving the public with a reliable communication system and growing the hobby as well!

 

Remember that GMRS isn’t HAM and HAM isn’t GMRS.  A *LOT* of people out there want GMRS for family use under one license and that’s what I’m doing but I’ve decided to open it up to the public as well as the coverage is fairly decent.  I looked at getting a business license and could have easily done it too but I like the idea of being able to chat with my family *AND* other GMRS users so here we are!

 

Thanks!

[marcspaz]

 

I wish I could like a post more than once.

[wayoverthere]

I wish I could like a post more than one.

I agree...very informative post, and even if someone disagrees with HOW things are, that would make it hard to argue they don't understand WHY.

 

on a side note, I wonder where in CA that repeater is linked to

[mbrun]

Love it! I recognize it is your money, your property, your right and only with your permission that I and others may use your property. Thank you for sharing the use of YOUR repeater.

 

Use by my family would be the number one reason I would put up a repeater, if i could afford it. I too would want to share it with others so long as it was not illegally used or abused and remained available for my family use when we needed it.

 

I was listening (partially heard) to a local net a couple of days when I heard an emotional announcement that the owner of a couple of high-profile repeaters in the area was shutting them down for reasons related to disrespect, inappropriate, improper (illegal?) use of radios and his/her equipment.

 

Michael

WRSH965

 

Okay,

I’ll bite here. I own a repeater (Rugged 575) in Naperville, IL at 250’. It’s on a commercial site with other UHF and VHF radio systems as well. Not only have I spent nearly 5 figures setting this up correctly but I monitor it as if it was my baby, cuz, you know, it *IS* my baby. I built it with no financial help from anyone else. Of course there was other help I received by LOTS of other commercial repeater owners (Those of you that are reading know who you are) as I’ve come a long way in the last year and some change here. I have my repeater system set up for several different private family usage cases and I also have a tone for public which I closely monitor as well and others that are out there do use it.

 

As a repeater owner I’m super happy to turn my radio on and hear other people using it. As a matter of fact just yesterday some other licensed GMRS users were using my repeater and I needed to use it with my wife as I was at the grocery store and I broke in and said, “hang tight guys, I need to talk to my wife for a minute. I’ll let you know when I’m done”. Anyways, I flipped to our tone, talked with her about the particulars, then went back to the public side and said “Carry on guys! Glad to hear you out there using the machine”.

 

That being said, mine is set to “Ask permission” as well because as others have mentioned, I want to know who is using it to verify their license and location because it’s my system and it’s my responsibility to make sure it’s up to par on the commercial shared site. I have sent an email back to EVERY! SINGLE! PERSON! As well welcoming them with the tones to use it! I haven’t had the need (yet) to ever reject anyone from using my repeater but I still keep a tab on who has access to it as in my opinion, it’s my responsibility to do so.

 

Not only that, but I have my custom verbiage I send back with every request as well stating that this is a family repeater as well and to aid to traffic on the other PL tone. Heck, I’ll paste what I send you can see where we are coming from with this:

 

“The tone for my repeater is XXXX (left blank) (N – normal, not inverted).

 

When you key up for the first time please identify yourself using your call sign and call for ROB. I am regulating who is using my repeater as it is being used for my family as well.

 

I have received an exceeding amount of requests to use my repeater. Originally this was set up for family only use but seeing as the range is far better than expected, I have opened it up on an as-requested basis to any licensed GMRS operator. PLEASE NOTE: ALL TRAFFIC MUST YIELD TO MY FAMILY. The tone for public use is different than family so if you see your radio lighting up receiving on 462.575 but no audio is coming through on your radio it's because my family is talking so please do not key up until that traffic has cleared.

 

Thanks and I hope to hear you on the air!”

 

 

That being said, sometimes users don’t understand what a multi-table is either so I will say this too: When you first use a new repeater you should ALWAYS call out for a radio check IMO because you don’t know how that repeater is set up and should NEVER assume anything! I was in Iowa once and I made contact to the owner on the traveler tone (I was travelling) and he told me that it’s linked to another repeater in California! NONE of this information was posted on mygmrs.com and upon googling I couldn’t even find it either!!! It was good to know that I was keying multiple machines too and me and the owner had a nice long 30 minute conversation and he was glad I keyed up and shouted out!

 

To sum up further as a repeater owner: *MOST*, but not *ALL* repeater owners don’t mind you using their machine I’ve found. Now I’m in the Midwest mind you, so again, no assumptions would be made for other machines that I’ve never used, but around here most repeater owners are very happy to have you on their machine and it brings a great smile to their face to know that they are serving the public with a reliable communication system and growing the hobby as well!

 

Remember that GMRS isn’t HAM and HAM isn’t GMRS. A *LOT* of people out there want GMRS for family use under one license and that’s what I’m doing but I’ve decided to open it up to the public as well as the coverage is fairly decent. I looked at getting a business license and could have easily done it too but I like the idea of being able to chat with my family *AND* other GMRS users so here we are!

 

Thanks!

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jec6613]

Remember that GMRS isn’t HAM and HAM isn’t GMRS.  A *LOT* of people out there want GMRS for family use under one license and that’s what I’m doing but I’ve decided to open it up to the public as well as the coverage is fairly decent.  I looked at getting a business license and could have easily done it too but I like the idea of being able to chat with my family *AND* other GMRS users so here we are!

 

This is *exactly* why I have GMRS.  There's no way my XYL will get her ham ticket, so I needed something in between to communicate with her.

 

In fact, I have an HT programmed for her to have with her during inclement weather.  Three times this year, we've lost cell service at either home or her work (I WFH), and we've had major road closures and other problems - it starts listening to a small section of the upper 440 band, with a few, "Channels", and transmits on GMRS.  Why?  Because as a ham, I can put up a much more larger antenna and use a lot more than 50W of power to reach her and receive her signal.

[AdmiralCochrane]

This is *exactly* why I have GMRS.  There's no way my XYL will get her ham ticket, so I needed something in between to communicate with her.

 

In fact, I have an HT programmed for her to have with her during inclement weather.  Three times this year, we've lost cell service at either home or her work (I WFH), and we've had major road closures and other problems - it starts listening to a small section of the upper 440 band, with a few, "Channels", and transmits on GMRS.  Why?  Because as a ham, I can put up a much more larger antenna and use a lot more than 50W of power to reach her and receive her signal.

Ditto

[mbrun]

Just thought I would post a link and some text from the FCC which is relevant to this topic.

 

https://www.fcc.gov/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

 

As of 2020-12-25 the last paragraph in the linked page reads/read:

 

“In transient use, a mobile station from one GMRS system may communicate through a mobile relay station (repeater) in another GMRS system with the permission of its licensee. The communications may also be with mobile stations from other GMRS systems also with permission from the licensee to communicate through the mobile relay station”

 

The relevant phase is, used twice, “with permission from the licensee”.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SteveC7010]

Just thought I would post a link and some text from the FCC which is relevant to this topic.

 

https://www.fcc.gov/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

 

As of 2020-12-25 the last paragraph in the linked page reads/read:

 

“In transient use, a mobile station from one GMRS system may communicate through a mobile relay station (repeater) in another GMRS system with the permission of its licensee. The communications may also be with mobile stations from other GMRS systems also with permission from the licensee to communicate through the mobile relay station”

 

The relevant phase is, used twice, “with permission from the licensee”.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thank you! That clearly settles this particular debate once and for all. Perhaps now the hams who want to push amateur radio thinking into GMRS would do well to read the rules for both services before posting their unfounded and baseless opinions. (For the record, I hold licenses in both services plus manage several Part 90 licenses.)

[MacJack]

Thanks for this info... I only had one experience with Repeater Owner and received his history and use of repeater.  I like your Midwestern view of your repeater usage and thank you for sharing in detail.  

 

Okay,

I’ll bite here.  I own a repeater (Rugged 575) in Naperville, IL at 250’.  It’s on a commercial site with other UHF and VHF radio systems as well.  Not only have I spent nearly 5 figures setting this up correctly but I monitor it as if it was my baby, cuz, you know, it *IS* my baby.  I built it with no financial help from anyone else.  Of course there was other help I received by LOTS of other commercial repeater owners (Those of you that are reading know who you are) as I’ve come a long way in the last year and some change here.  I have my repeater system set up for several different private family usage cases and I also have a tone for public which I closely monitor as well and others that are out there do use it.

 

“The tone for my repeater is XXXX (left blank) (N – normal, not inverted).

 

When you key up for the first time please identify yourself using your call sign and call for ROB.  I am regulating who is using my repeater as it is being used for my family as well.

 

I have received an exceeding amount of requests to use my repeater.  Originally this was set up for family only use but seeing as the range is far better than expected, I have opened it up on an as-requested basis to any licensed GMRS operator.  PLEASE NOTE:  ALL TRAFFIC MUST YIELD TO MY FAMILY.  The tone for public use is different than family so if you see your radio lighting up receiving on 462.575 but no audio is coming through on your radio it's because my family is talking so please do not key up until that traffic has cleared.

 

Remember that GMRS isn’t HAM and HAM isn’t GMRS.  A *LOT* of people out there want GMRS for family use under one license and that’s what I’m doing but I’ve decided to open it up to the public as well as the coverage is fairly decent.  I looked at getting a business license and could have easily done it too but I like the idea of being able to chat with my family *AND* other GMRS users so here we are!

 

Thanks!

[w4thm]

I gotta say i'm still shocked over the general attitude of gmrs repeater owners and hams.

 

"Well, I built it!" - good for you, so have many hams without club funds.

 

"I paid for my license." - hams have to study for theirs. This in a way guarantees some level of competence.

 

"I don't want yahoos or shenanigans on my repeater." - yeah, because yahoos always ask before goofing off on a freq.

 

The attitude sucks. I'm standing by that. Unlike ham radio which has hundreds of repeater pairs, gmrs has only a handful. If there's anywhere that could benefit from some comraderie, its gmrs.

[berkinet]

I gotta say i'm still shocked over the general attitude of gmrs repeater owners and hams.

 

Ham Radio ≠ GMRS

 

Different in many ways: equipment authorization, power and features; history; community; user licensing; purpose; expandability; commercial support; etc. etc.

 

You simply cannot, and, IMO should not, try to compare the two. And, even if you try what is the point?

[H8SPVMT]

Regardless, this whole ask for permission thing seems flawed. This isn't a business radio license.

 

You've put up a repeater on a limited shared resource (only 8 pairs) and then expect people to catch you on the air (without knowing your schedule) so they can ask if they can use it? That makes as much sense as having somebody wait at a toll booth until the attendant decides to show up for work.

 

Suppose somebody takes the time to finally catch you on the air and ask. What exactly is accomplished? Does it satisfy the King? Does the King approve or will the King go have to chase a baofeng on vox that's been strapped to an ice cream truck because the King behaved like an Oaf? Let's be honest here. The only thing this permission thing is doing is feeding an ego.

I like many new GMRS owners see repeaters as a grand "scheme to get extra range for free for little effort." 

Then it hit me after talking with a repeater owner that I should, no could place me a repeater right here (my home location)  where one is badly needed as there are none!    It seemed a grand idea, at first.

 

Then the research began.  Not far mind you, just statewide as to what was currently available and in use.  We have sole owners (individuals) providing family & HOAs service to multi-complex memberships with linked systems and much in-between.  But it struck me, it is all privately owned, just like my home & property.  I get exclusive use to my property as long as I pay the local, state and federal taxes.  I get to incur the maintenance cost and pay for improvements too.

 

Like many, I hate cheap knockoffs so I'd want the best equipment, best location and highest height/range for me and my users.  It would just me providing this service and realize it would be providing all the assets, time invested in setup, running and maintenance.  This brings me back to my property statement.

 

By law my property is private.  You are by law required to get my permission to use it, afterall you might get injured using it and want to sue me so, I get the distinct previleage of providing the insurance too.

 

 

Cut to the chase:  A repeater is no less persons effort to provide a service that he while providing all those things might get sued for too.

 

It is not that had to ask for permission, especially in a polite society...  Isn't that what we all strive to be?

 

No, at my age, I will not be setting up a repeater.  I haven't seen enough pleasure in the GMRS/FRS environment  ( like was in CB days of ole) to endure the hassle and cost.

[IronArcher]

Oddly, I think I’m right about in the middle of this “debate”.

I can understand why a GMRS repeater owner would want to get permission.

You can then have a list of people who have permission, so if you need to change your squelch codes, you can e-mail everyone the new codes.

GMRS doesn’t require a test, meaning it doesn’t require any significant knowledge of the rules/regulations. Simply put, GMRS lics don’t mean you know any more than that you need one, and how to get one.

Hams need to take tests. Meaning they need to at least know the answers to the tests. And will jump through the hoops needed to actually take the test in front of 3 VEs.

The people willing to do that, on average, are going to take their privileges a little more seriously than someone who simply paid some money on a website.

So I can see why hams are more willing to open up their repeaters. The people using them are more likely to take the rules seriously.

At the same time, I would think that GMRS repeater owners would WANT more people to use their repeaters to get a little more use out of the time, money and effort to put up a repeater, and maybe find a few more people that they could get a hold of if they needed help in an emergency... especially if it is a larger repeater.

I do use GMRS as a hobby. I will also be looking at ham radio as a hobby as well.

I am very grateful to the owner of our one active local repeater. I have met him, and consider him a good friend. Enough that I’ve been to his place to help with his repeater, and he has helped me with my mobile setup.

I was a kid of the CB generation, and remember meeting a lot of people that became my friends because of CB.

CB seems to have become a wasteland since the dawn of cell phones... maybe still useful for truck drivers, but little more unless talking skip on sidebands.

For me, GMRS is like CB on steroids. I can reliably talk 20 miles on an HT to people I know well, and others I only know via GMRS.

I’m not really looking to make contacts for the sake of having made a contact. So even though I will be getting at the least, a general lic, I won’t be getting any gear outside of HF, VHF, and UHF. Probably won’t even get into HF.

That said, I think, based on some replies here, GMRS could learn some things from hams.

[mbrun]

Good citizenship and giving back to the community for the common good are valid justifications why a repeater owner might open their repeater up for others individuals to use. I for one know that if I put one up I would most likely share it.

 

I get the sense however from some that they feel I should be obligated to give them use of my equipment if I happened to have the means and choose to acquire it. It is that sense of entitlement that really troubles me.

 

If I owned a chainsaw I would likely loan it out to a family member or neighbor when I learned they were in need and/or they otherwise asked. However, I would not look to kindly on a random person entering my property and using of my possessions without my consent merely because they learned from a friend of a friend that I owned what they wanted.

 

Perhaps I grew up in an old school and time when being polite and asking permission were cherished and respected traits of a polite society. Perhaps now I need to learn things have changed and it is perfectly appropriate to borrow things from others without their consent. Under this mindset it would seem I should be able to borrow that lawnmower sitting outside in someone’s yard without their consent, or perhaps even their car which is sitting on a public street, as long as I return it when I am done with it.

 

I will restate again (see my earlier post in this thread) that the FCC itself clearly showed its intent with regards to repeater access. They indicate (and I paraphrase) that the repeater owner “may” grant access to the use of the repeater to others and “may” revoke permission. In this regard, its is legally their decision.

 

Don’t give the repeater owners a bad rap for not giving you permission to use their equipment. Instead, be thankful, friendly and polite to those that do give you permission. Perhaps befriend them with an offer to contribute towards ongoing operating expenses as a sign of your ongoing appreciation. If someone does not give you permission, respect their decision, don’t just steal it. If you really need a repeater find a legal way to get one of you own on the air.

 

BTW, I am am both an amateur and GMRS licensee. I feel the same about both.

 

Being respectful and polite goes a long way.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

P.S. If you are one that truly feels that all GMRS repeaters should be open to all, then perhaps the FCC needs to be lobbied and the Part 95 rules need to be changed. Be prepared however for higher taxes and or many current repeater owners taking them off the air as no one likes to be told what to do.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[berkinet]

...I get the sense however from some that they feel I should be obligated to give them use of my equipment if I happened to have the means and choose to acquire it. It is that sense of entitlement that really troubles me. ...

Amen!

[AdmiralCochrane]

Radio waves in GMRS band are public domain, but hardware is not. There is nothing more to it, repeaters are personally owned hardware. I do not expect to use someone else's radio just because I know where it is and how it works.

[mbrun]

Radio waves in GMRS band are public domain, but hardware is not. There is nothing more to it, repeaters are personally owned hardware. I do not expect to use someone else's radio just because I know where it is and how it works.

Amen!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gman1971]

hahaha.... man, you're hilarious, OP.

 

I think you shouldn't limit such delightfully entitled attitude of yours to just GMRS, after all why stop there, right? I've heard cops have radio systems with statewide coverage, yeah, and guess what: you're paying for those systems with your taxes!!, therefore you are totally entitled to use these frequencies too... yeah!! absolutely... crank that CCR PA to 100W and kerchunk that P25 statewide like a boss with some "Breaker Breaker, 10-4 10-4, roger copy that, out..." or if CB aint ya'r thing then some "CQ CQ, calling all buddies in this frequency, roger roger india sierra uniform charile kilo alpha bravo..."

 

haha....

 

 

G.

[gblan]

I didn't get GMRS for the social aspect. Repeaters are sparse to non-existent in my area anyway.  I got a pair of KG-805Gs so we would have more power from the radio and replaceable antennas for better range. (Getting up to 4 miles with the Nagoyas.) Basically beefy walkie-talkies, which is really all GMRS is in reality. My son and his mom have zero intention of ever getting a Ham cert so the KG-805Gs serve us well for family outings when we want to split up. 

[wrjc901]

On 6/5/2021 at 12:30 AM, gblan said:

I didn't get GMRS for the social aspect. Repeaters are sparse to non-existent in my area anyway.  I got a pair of KG-805Gs so we would have more power from the radio and replaceable antennas for better range. (Getting up to 4 miles with the Nagoyas.) Basically beefy walkie-talkies, which is really all GMRS is in reality. My son and his mom have zero intention of ever getting a Ham cert so the KG-805Gs serve us well for family outings when we want to split up. 

Do not underestimate UHF and 8 watts. 
70cm Ham repeater I have hit 80 miles away, its on top of a mountain in Little rock. 
I use regularly with my HT from house at 40 miles. 

I've compared 10w, GMRs and 50w, other than a bit more modulation carrying over the ridges to the repeater,  not much difference. 
If you find a location on a hill, can have two antennas on the same mast 30' apart vertically and build a repeater system from cheap commercial radios without the need for a duplexer, and be surprised how far your 50w will go. 
I've heard guys in the Oauchita Mountains on cheap midlands 50 miles away. 

[DeoVindice]

On 12/25/2020 at 11:24 AM, w4thm said:

I gotta say i'm still shocked over the general attitude of gmrs repeater owners and hams.

 

"Well, I built it!" - good for you, so have many hams without club funds.

 

"I paid for my license." - hams have to study for theirs. This in a way guarantees some level of competence.

 

"I don't want yahoos or shenanigans on my repeater." - yeah, because yahoos always ask before goofing off on a freq.

 

The attitude sucks. I'm standing by that. Unlike ham radio which has hundreds of repeater pairs, gmrs has only a handful. If there's anywhere that could benefit from some comraderie, its gmrs.

The repeater is not your property, therefore you do not have the right to utilize it without permission from its owner. Simple as that.

[DONE]

For all of you that have rattled on about the 'cost' of putting up a GMRS repeater as an excuse.... We bought the TOWER SITE ours is on for 48K. So your few grand for an antenna and repeater don't hold water.  Mind you they are not the ONLY radios on the tower.  But crying about the cost of a repeater, antenna and line sort of falls on deaf ears for me.  Spend 50K plus before you can even have somewhere to plug in the repeater and then we can talk. 

That being said. 

GMRS is NOT ham... it is a short form of private LMR.  And you can have "closed"  ham repeaters that are club only if you desire to do that.  And you can require the payment of dues for entry into a club to get access to a ham repeater.  The difference with GMRS and HAM is that with GMRS, you can do the same thing,  BUT you can only take in enough money to support and maintain the GMRS system.  It can't be for profit.  And it can't go for club fee's or other nonrepeater costs. 

So my take is this.... it is YOUR repeater.  You can choose to allow all comers, or you can choose to have it remain private and only used by you and your family.  If you choose to accept donations... great.  Electric costs money... tower site insurance costs money,, fixing stuff costs money... but while we would never refuse to take a donation,,, we will not ask for them either. 

Lets break down some REAL costs.

Site 48K... rewire site 10K, monthly cost of ownership due to electrical and reaccuring stuff like taxes $200 - $400

TWO MTR uhf repeaters 800 each.  4 port combiner new cost, 8K per port.  600 feet of 7/8 hard line at 2 bucks a foot.

Receive multicoupler for RX and window filter  $3k new.  Two DB-420 antennas (one TX one RX) 1.2K each new.

 I don't want to HEAR what it cost you.  I don't much care... We are hosting TWO fully public GMRS repeaters which will be 3 total as soon as I get time to set down and repair the TK-850 Kenwood and program it.  Then it will be 3 open repeaters. 

 

Tower is 240 feet tall.  GMRS repeaters talk 3 counties away in most directions to a mobile with a reasonable antenna.

When you spend that sort of jack and put forward that sort of effort, let me know and I will listen to how expensive it all is.  Until then STOP hiding behind the cost of it.  If you don't want to share, don't.  There is ZERO requirement to do so.  If you want to put up a repeater that is closed,, do it... but remember that if you are holding others back from having a repeater, because you happen to be able to cover 9 to 12 counties, don't.

Will we be tying up 3 of the 8 repeater pairs,,, in a sense, yes.  But they are open to ALL.  And we have only irritated ONE person.  He runs some sort of GMRS business.  And the fact I am interleaved on his pairs, and stomp his coverage in the dirt with a single site where his crap is from here to there and back again and he STILL don't have the overall footprint we have.  I honestly don't care if I am killing his pay to play GMRS business.  And YES it's a business with an OHIO issued business license for GMRS.  If you are reading this... you know WHO you are and who I am.... sorry but you don't get to claim all the freqs for your business and then be mad when someone comes in with a better system and allows folks on it for free.

 

[SkylinesSuck]

9 hours ago, DeoVindice said:

The repeater is not your property, therefore you do not have the right to utilize it without permission from its owner. Simple as that.

As a matter of decency, yes. Just know that it's not the law or anything.  If you put your listed or even unlisted repeater out there and somebody finds it and starts using it without permission (roger beeps and all), they aren't breaking any laws.  If they comply with all applicable regulations, don't expect the FCC to do anything but laugh at you over the phone when you call in to report somebody using your repeater without your permission.  Nobody owns any frequency on GMRS and if you put your equipment on the air, be prepared for anybody and everybody to use it, because they can.  Is it rude?  Yes.  I don't want people doing it, but they can.

[JeepCrawler98]

4 hours ago, SkylinesSuck said:

As a matter of decency, yes. Just know that it's not the law or anything.  If you put your listed or even unlisted repeater out there and somebody finds it and starts using it without permission (roger beeps and all), they aren't breaking any laws.  If they comply with all applicable regulations, don't expect the FCC to do anything but laugh at you over the phone when you call in to report somebody using your repeater without your permission.  Nobody owns any frequency on GMRS and if you put your equipment on the air, be prepared for anybody and everybody to use it, because they can.  Is it rude?  Yes.  I don't want people doing it, but they can.

Using another repeater falls under the cooperative use clause and restrictions by the owner fall under 'individual licensee duties' of 47 CFR §95.1705:
 

Quote

 

(d) Individual licensee duties. The holder of an individual license:

(1) Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s) (see paragraph (c) of this section);

(2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons;

(3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

...

(f) Cooperative use of GMRS stations. GMRS licensees may share the use of their stations with other persons eligible in the GMRS, subject to the conditions and limitations in this paragraph.

(1) The GMRS station to be shared must be individually owned by the licensee, jointly owned by the participants and the licensee, leased individually by the licensee, or leased jointly by the participants and the licensee.

(2) The licensee must maintain access to and control over all stations authorized under its license.

(3) A station may be shared only:

(i) Without charge;

(ii) On a non-profit basis, with contributions to capital and operating expenses including the cost of mobile stations and paging receivers prorated equitably among all participants; or

(iii) On a reciprocal basis, i.e., use of one licensee's stations for the use of another licensee's stations without charge for either capital or operating expenses.

(4) All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a written agreement to be kept as part of the station records.

 

Repeaters are still classified as 'stations.' This section is why many repeater owners require permission, as they're technically required to keep a list of control stations.

Key takeaways:

"Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s)"

(2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons;

(3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

"Specifically" in that first paragraph implies that a repeater's licensee must specify who you allow to act as a control station (which is any station using a repeater) over your GMRS station (in this case a repeater). This pretty much means that you have a duty as a repeater owner to keep a list of users to be compliant with this rule.

This is aside from helping to tune out the noise caused by people who take others' hard work for granted and cause trouble.

I don't think anyone stumbling onto a GMRS repeater is breaking the rules as a control station since it's hard to post a repeater as locked down in a matter fitting public notice; but the repeater owner does have a legal burden to keep track of you as a permitted user which users need to be aware of and thus should notify repeater owners of their intent. Of course, per the above, they can tell you to get off their equipment too and it's entirely within their rights to do so.

In practice; is this ever enforced and does the FCC care? I doubt it - but it is in the rules.

Edited June 18, 2021 by JeepCrawler98
Added link, and more verbal diarrhea

[gortex2]

I think its grey. But with that said I have limited my users with RAS and other features that my repeaters have. I have one that sits and waits until it hears the proper DTMF/RAS code then when I'm done I send a  repeater  disable. It wont stop a true radio guy from digging out the code and doing it them selves but 99% of the people who cause issues have a CCR and aren't smart enough to understand that stuff. 

 

I think the big issue is alot of us pay to put stuff on the air. If you abuse a privilege's you should be disciplined. Apparently we can't do that anymore so doing other things to make it harder is all we can do. In the end I'll just remove my repeater (and have in some locations). 

 I also recommend not listing it all over the world if you don't want folks on it. jmho